Action condensing options

[Croatoan]

There should be the OPTION to make all weaponskill combos "one-button" chains instead of requiring you to press a sequence of 3 different keys.
There're also several actions that should be optionally consolidated to 1 key. AST's draw/play for example.
If implemented, this wouldn't grant any kind of advantage or effect other players in the least.

[Shurrikhan]

There should be the OPTION to make all weaponskill combos "one-button" chains instead of requiring you to press a sequence of 3 different keys.

Technically, by removing the brain-dead, fat-finger trap of our "combos" (not actually skill combinations in any practice, but merely singular multi-GCD actions), they can provide a slight advantage, though really to those most screwed over by those physical traps (e.g., those with impaired dexterity).

But, get rid of that fat fingering, such that one can only hit skills which restart the same combo, start a new combo, or continue into (one of) the next step(s) of the combo, and that advantage would be removed.

But yes, I'm all for the option, if combos are to remain rigid sequences and therefore really only each a singular decision. I see no problem with single, irreducible decisions having a singular button.

...I'd technically prefer actual combos, but that is a distant pipedream.

[Lauront]

Perfectly fine with it if it is introduced as an option and is reserved as such.

[Saraide]

And yet when checking many logs of many different players on real content you very often see missed combos. If the 2-3 spaces on your hotbar you free up make or break your setup, then the issue isnt combo buttons taking up multiple spaces, it's that your hotbar setup sucks.

Pointing to it being an option is completely meaningless. Job difficulty and mechanical difficulty is always connected, make one easier and you make the other easier aswell.

[Shurrikhan]

And yet when checking many logs of many different players on real content you very often see missed combos. If the 2-3 spaces on your hotbar you free up make or break your setup, then the issue isnt combo buttons taking up multiple spaces, it's that your hotbar setup sucks.

A setup can be smoother and more intuitive to the point of creating a more enjoyable experience by trimming the 2-7 redundant buttons of each combo step having its own key without that "making or breaking" the setup as a whole. There are more and finer thresholds than just "broken" and "workable".

Job difficulty and mechanical difficulty is always connected, make one easier and you make the other easier aswell.

If we're to call not even having the option to forgo button bloat a worthwhile contribution to "mechanical difficulty", then where does that end?

The same would then apply to anything, even just lack of polish. If the way anything gives something more to manage (to do or not do, however unfun it may be), then that would excuse its cost to polish or other gameplay options.

• This skill is bugged and does less potency that is stated? Well, those who know are rewarded, so that's an extra measure of skill-gap and therefore beneficial.
  
  
• This skill crashes the game? Well, like all but your 1-2 GCDs in combo sequence, don't press it. Those who don't get rewarded. Surely that's worth the extra button.

There are gameplay reasons to keep the option of having each step even of a singular, inflexible decision require its own button, but "mechanical difficulty" ain't it.
Tactile feel? Sure. But pure traps aren't worth spending buttons on.

[Saraide]

A setup can be smoother and more intuitive to the point of creating a more enjoyable experience by trimming the 2-7 redundant buttons of each combo step having its own key without that "making or breaking" the setup as a whole. There are more and finer thresholds than just "broken" and "workable".


If we're to call not even having the option to forgo button bloat a worthwhile contribution to "mechanical difficulty", then where does that end?

The same would then apply to anything, even just lack of polish. If the way anything gives something more to manage (to do or not do, however unfun it may be), then that would excuse its cost to polish or other gameplay options.

• This skill is bugged and does less potency that is stated? Well, those who know are rewarded, so that's an extra measure of skill-gap and therefore beneficial.
  This skill crashes the game? Well, like all but your 1-2 GCDs in combo sequence, don't press it. Those who don't get rewarded. Surely that's worth the extra button.

There are gameplay reasons to keep the option of having each step even of a singular, inflexible decision require its own button, but "mechanical difficulty" ain't it.
Tactile feel? Sure. But pure traps aren't worth spending buttons on.

I'm all for a fine tuned approach of changing jobs, a sledge hammer approach solves nothing. You accuse me of going to extremes but then do it yourself, I suppose we're both guilty of it if we're being honest.

For example I didnt mind the cartridge combo collapse on gunbreaker. Why? Because you already couldnt misclick the combo. As it is on the jobs that have it, combo steps require you to pay attention that would be freed up otherwise. If you look at logs that arent particularly high, combo breaking is happening a lot so it absolutely would change balancing as a whole. Combo collapse isnt a just tiny QoL thing.

I would much prefer for the devs to have a specific vision for each job in mind and then stick to it all the way. There is already the option to not engage with standard combos: it's called playing a job that doesnt use them.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm all for a fine tuned approach of changing jobs, a sledge hammer approach solves nothing. You accuse me of going to extremes but then do it yourself, I suppose we're both guilty of it if we're being honest.

My intention there was to question your specific warrant, not your overall conclusion. Again, my preference is actual combos, as compared to the fake crap we have now.

I'd just sooner give players the option to consolidate them since the existing "combo" system works disproportionately to punish impaired players. Intended or not, that's the primary result, the place where "succeeding" at hitting 12345 actually differs from "failing" at following the yellow-glow road or from being able to hit a single button for a single decision (a single inflexible combo).

But fair enough; I apologize if I overemphasized the slippery slope there by not bounding your warrant nearer to just the difference in our conclusions.

For example I didnt mind the cartridge combo collapse on gunbreaker. Why? Because you already couldnt misclick the combo. As it is on the jobs that have it, combo steps require you to pay attention that would be freed up otherwise. If you look at logs that arent particularly high, combo breaking is happening a lot so it absolutely would change balancing as a whole. Combo collapse isnt a just tiny QoL thing.

Right, but should "I can misclick this" be considered a worthwhile reason to force every player to spend, say, 10 buttons on a mere 3 decisions (DRG) for which there is zero viable use-cases for mixing outside of starting a new combo after having started the wrong one?

7 buttons just for the purpose, if you are correct, of setting traps that will matter almost only to those with impaired dexterity. Is that worthwhile? Is that good design?

Yes, that cost is less on other combo jobs (just 3 for NIN, 4 for SAM), but that is the fundamental design difference at play in terms of "mechanical complexity" for giving or refusing players the option for consolidated combos: trap buttons. That's it.

There is already the option to not engage with standard combos: it's called playing a job that doesnt use them.

Which is why I mostly play Monk, and why I preferred SAM when there was at least some slight reason to have each button separately available (such that one could want to use Shifu or Jinpu during Meikyo, even if only very rarely and after having already messed up somewhere prior).

Likewise, I'd certainly rather see Bard be able to bank Refulgent Arrow / Shadowbite procs than see those consolidated. But there ought to at least some use case for the separate buttons. Especially if we're to frame its being there around "mechanical difficulty" as opposed to just "I like my fingers to move around more" (a very real but entirely subjective point of merit for having separate buttons).

I like the tactile feel, the button-flow, of unconsolidated combos, but I see no reason (as I do not believe mere intentional trap buttons to be good design) to deny a consolidated option to the players who care less about that than a more efficient or (to them) intuitive layout.

[Saraide]

My intention there was to question your specific warrant, not your overall conclusion. Again, my preference is actual combos, as compared to the fake crap we have now.

I'd just sooner give players the option to consolidate them since the existing "combo" system works disproportionately to punish impaired players. Intended or not, that's the primary result, the place where "succeeding" at hitting 12345 actually differs from "failing" at following the yellow-glow road or from being able to hit a single button for a single decision (a single inflexible combo).

But fair enough; I apologize if I overemphasized the slippery slope there by not bounding your warrant nearer to just the difference in our conclusions.



Right, but should "I can misclick this" be considered a worthwhile reason to force every player to spend, say, 10 buttons on a mere 3 decisions (DRG) for which there is zero viable use-cases for mixing outside of starting a new combo after having started the wrong one?

7 buttons just for the purpose, if you are correct, of setting traps that will matter almost only to those with impaired dexterity. Is that worthwhile? Is that good design?

Yes, that cost is less on other combo jobs (just 3 for NIN, 4 for SAM), but that is the fundamental design difference at play in terms of "mechanical complexity" for giving or refusing players the option for consolidated combos: trap buttons. That's it.


Which is why I mostly play Monk, and why I preferred SAM when there was at least some slight reason to have each button separately available (such that one could want to use Shifu or Jinpu during Meikyo, even if only very rarely and after having already messed up somewhere prior).

Likewise, I'd certainly rather see Bard be able to bank Refulgent Arrow / Shadowbite procs than see those consolidated. But there ought to at least some use case for the separate buttons. Especially if we're to frame its being there around "mechanical difficulty" as opposed to just "I like my fingers to move around more" (a very real but entirely subjective point of merit for having separate buttons).

I like the tactile feel, the button-flow, of unconsolidated combos, but I see no reason (as I do not believe mere intentional trap buttons to be good design) to deny a consolidated option to the players who care less about that than a more efficient or (to them) intuitive layout.

It's not just a matter of impaired dexterity, it's in many many cases a matter of lack of attention stemming from not knowing mechanics well enough.

[DixieBellOCE]

And yet when checking many logs of many different players on real content you very often see missed combos. If the 2-3 spaces on your hotbar you free up make or break your setup, then the issue isnt combo buttons taking up multiple spaces, it's that your hotbar setup sucks.

Pointing to it being an option is completely meaningless. Job difficulty and mechanical difficulty is always connected, make one easier and you make the other easier aswell.

Or, like me you have a physical impairment that makes having a large number of keybindings impossible.
having the option to consolidate skill chains would be a major QoL update.

[Jeeqbit]

You have the option to play a healer.