They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Saraide]

That's because they are not playing the game to optimize. They are playing the game to have fun, relax or enjoy the story. Just because you play for a different reason than they do doesn't mean that you should push that onto them. The only content where they need to be concerned about optimizing is fights with an enrage and advice in those fights is reasonable.

There could be any number of other reasons why somebody is not playing the way you think they should. It might be intentional because they disagree with you, they might be having a bad day and have just made a mistake or they are just relaxing leveling an alt job they don't normally play.

I've never seen anyone say "you don't pay my sub" seriously.

No one seriously asks for high end optimization either. When I see someone only use cure 1 and medica in lvl 70 content I can clearly see that they dont give a fck about anyone else. They're just selfish. No one seriously cares if your buffs are always drifting a little bit but if you never use them, that just shows you dont care. What people like the person you quoted want is for everyone to try their best because this is a teamgame. And a lot of people are not and that ranges from someone having a bad day and messing up mechanics left and right all the way down to functionally being afk. To be fair however you dont need a parser to see that most of the time.

[Rilifane]

Well that kind of attitude is pretty much why Yoshi does not want to add official parsers in game. If people respond like this without one added, imagine if it was added...

Except that there is nothing wrong with declining someone's application for your static if their logs clearly show that they don't meet the static's expecations. Nobody is entitled to a spot in a static just because they applied and it's well within the static leader's right to decline people based on whatever criteria they deem fit. Even if it's some as arbitrary as wanting a Hroth only static.
Nor is there anything wrong with disbanding a party or kicking the person that is holding a party back with their performance when they can't reach enrage despite nobody dying because believe it or not, nobody is entitled to other sticking with them in a party if they can't perform properly for the content they're doing.

And there are enough people out there who use the ToS as a shield while being passive-aggressive. It absolutely happens and it is the most common form of toxicity in FFXIV.
I don't think that anyone should perform at their best in DF content of all things and I rarely see the extreme cases of someone being auto attack afk, not healing nor dpsing, not using aoe at all etc. but preferring to run with friends instead of trying their luck with DF is also -again- completely within their rights.
Because isn't that exactly what people that like to contribute more always get told when this comes up? "Then just run in your uber premade"?

So why is it something negative if people get declined a static spot or kicked from a party because they are not performing at a level the content requires?
Why is it something negative that someone prefers to use DF only in (partly) premades because they don't want to deal with too much randomness in terms of gameplay?
Yes, it could've been worded differently. Point still stands: it's within their rights. Their party/ static/ premade, their rules.

Being informed =/= Being toxic. There's no part of being an ass, even, that's facilitated or encouraged by having a better grasp of the situation.

And people like to ignore that lack of informations causes finger-pointing in the entirely wrong direction while the person getting accused is completely defenseless against that. Having to leave isn't a defense by the way.
Just from last week of PF'ing (had my clears, just wanted to kill stuff for fun and help parties get their clears as well) I have two examples of this happening and in both cases it ended up with the party disbanding because it was impossible to shut the people up that blamed the wrong person and nobody wanted to stay in a party when they got wrongly accused of something either.

[Jason_Ashford]

There is an unbelievably easy fix to this, though. Make it against the rules to ask for DPS numbers or discriminate based on them, ban people who do, boom problem solved. You know, what they already do, and why no one asks for dps numbers from the ALREADY AVAILABLE tools...

that's not a fix because they'll take recruitment outside the game where they can bully people all day long about their dps parse.

[VelKallor]

Sure thing I've never seen anyone post any dps meters from any content ingame let alone a normal 4man. Plus anyone comparing dps in sastasha is a idiot and has no understanding about the game thus you can just laugh and ignore their ignorant comment "assuming it actually happened"

I reread the thread and wanted to reply to this.

In WOW the very first dungeon is a place called Ragefire Chasm. Lost count of the number of times I have seen dps meters spammed..and thats their equivalent of Sastasha.

That you have never seen it happen doesnt mean it doesnt happen. It does. Frequently.

In brief, my earlier comments stand. The potential for abuse, misuse and the resulting offensive, and at times obscene, language and behaviour is exhibit one as to why Yoshi's stance on this matter is unequivocal and correct in every aspect.

[Anhra]

There is a official Damage Meter called Combatlog, i dont know what all the fuss is about.

[hagare]

Yes, and they will be regardless of features put into the game.

This is relevant only if parsers would cause people to be dicks when they otherwise wouldn't, or that blinding people to their performance would somehow stop them from questioning others' performance when shit hits the fan (e.g., a DPS check is failed). Yet there is no evidence to suggest either is the case.

(In reality, it merely tends to shift the question merely from "What can we do to improve it" (locked behind these layers of blindfolds first from no sanctioned data and second from even eyeballed knowledge being threatenable with reports) to, first, what can be improved. It simply adds a prior, and arguably far more humiliating, step to the original one, or replaces solutions with disbandment.)

(Can't get called out for having potentially parsed if your solution to the problem is just to replace everyone and roll the dice again, after all. At least it's not "discriminatory" or likely to be reportable if you waste 8 players' time instead of helping the one in need. Modern grey-area solutions for modern blindfolded-under-threat-of-ban problems.)

And giving them parsers is giving them more things to be dicks about.
Let's not weaponize dicks even more yeah.

[Jason_Ashford]

I seriously don't get why people think this when high-end statics already filter with FFLogs lol?? A lot of players also kick you from weeklies if your logs look shit. This has been a thing since early Stormblood, if not late Heavensward (when they introduced cross-world PF).

It's not like you're preventing anything when it's already in FF14.

They can prevent wide-spread bullying by blocking any demands for parse logs being added in game. it's literally that simple.

I'm personally against a damage meter not because of toxicity (shit argument), but because all it does is push players into approaching encounters in a highly one-dimensional way, which is exactly why Savage fights are such a snoozefest these days because it's designed EXACTLY to the parameters of the parsebrains. Official damage meters will cause even the casuals to tunnel on DPS and whine and cry whenever they lose more than one GCD of uptime.

Savage is literally so boring now even during progression because melee uptime is given to you for free. And I'm 100% sure it's designed this way because both NA and JP players care too much about DPS.

This isn't a toxicity thing, it's a "let's dumb down our game so that only one metric matters" thing.

If you actually think it's not a toxicity thing, then you're even more Naïve than i thought. You need only look at games like WoW and ESO where parse logs are prevalent to see the amount of toxicity and bullying that it invites.

I'm playing tank this tier and I genuinely feel like my mitigation is completely useless EVEN in Ultimate (DSR), outside of tankbusters. Bosses barely auto, my mit on party members don't mean jackshit because healing can be solved completely with healer oGCDs, etc. My mind is focused on optimizing damage even in Ultimate, on what in literally every other game would be considered a support with utility (tanking, aggro etc.)

(This is also why I'm having way more fun in Lost Ark compared to literally everything in FF14 below Ultimate because there are a LOT of things that all simultaneously matter: dodging, teamwork, DPS, using battle items, etc.)

IF they were to implement a damage meter, I want metrics other than DPS to be shown as well, like Lost Ark's MVP screen. Damage mitigated should be a thing on such a meter, along with eHP healed (i.e. HPS adjusted for mitigation and overhealing), mechanics successfully executed (track across a lockout), etc.

The only reason most of the people asking for parses want logs specifically for DPS. you know darn well that if they added parses without DPS checks, these same people would piss and moan about it because they only want parses so they can gatekeep endgame content and block less skilled players from completing content.

[Kirundo]

I reread the thread and wanted to reply to this.

In WOW the very first dungeon is a place called Ragefire Chasm. Lost count of the number of times I have seen dps meters spammed..and thats their equivalent of Sastasha.

That you have never seen it happen doesnt mean it doesnt happen. It does. Frequently.

In brief, my earlier comments stand. The potential for abuse, misuse and the resulting offensive, and at times obscene, language and behaviour is exhibit one as to why Yoshi's stance on this matter is unequivocal and correct in every aspect.

I lost count how often PF groups would disband over one person failing mechanics or hitting enrage. By your own logic let's remove enrage or any mechanics so you won't be harassed

[Jason_Ashford]

So you are telling me that if you can be harassed over something in the game, this should not be a part of the game? How about we actually just deal with the people harassing you instead of getting rid of every potential feature that you can get harassed over.
I remind you that you can technically be harassed over your performance even without ACT, and how are we dealing with it? Removing features or reporting the player?

or how about the devs not enable bullying by continuing to block any request for parse logs to be added. it doesn't matter how good your intentions are, people WILL abuse parse logs to bully and gatekeep content from those less skilled. So the answer is now and will forever remain NO

[Kirundo]

And giving them parsers is giving them more things to be dicks about.
Let's not weaponize dicks even more yeah.

You can argue against literally every feature in the game with this logic
Let's remove iLvL, ability to lock PF groups based on completion, ability to check someones gear and melds because it "weaponizes dicks"!