Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[Quor]

And yeah Tenka Goken is a real bite in the ass since they just introduced an option for actions to automatically acquire a target when using said actions, which would have been great for the "problem" of Tenka Goken previously requiring a target as it was a cone AOE.
Now we're stuck running into an intersection being asked to stand in place and hope we don't get run over by everything going on, instead of safely casting from the sidewalk of the cone aoe previously, all for the sake of "smoothing it out" and "not requiring a target" which is apparently good?

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the changes to SAM in this patch feel half-baked at best. None of the reasoning makes sense, and this makes me think that whoever was responsible for it is either a rank newbie or otherwise completely disconnected from any actual gameplay involving SAM. A total theorycrafter who did the equivalent of looking at spreadsheets and making decisions by committee without actually trying the changes in a real game environment, much less considering how actual SAM players would feel.

Neither is a good look. I could forgive a complete newbie; roll back the changes, chalk it up to experience and make sure the newbie knows to get real experience with a job before they go mucking about with it. Still shouldn't have been approved for patch release by the higher-ups though. If it's the other one though? Then there is a dire need for an internal audit of the job balance team to ensure that decisions are being made with regards to how actual gameplay feels instead of simply through this spreadsheet/paint by numbers approach.

[Edweena]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the changes to SAM in this patch feel half-baked at best. None of the reasoning makes sense, and this makes me think that whoever was responsible for it is either a rank newbie or otherwise completely disconnected from any actual gameplay involving SAM. A total theorycrafter who did the equivalent of looking at spreadsheets and making decisions by committee without actually trying the changes in a real game environment, much less considering how actual SAM players would feel.

Neither is a good look. I could forgive a complete newbie; roll back the changes, chalk it up to experience and make sure the newbie knows to get real experience with a job before they go mucking about with it. Still shouldn't have been approved for patch release by the higher-ups though. If it's the other one though? Then there is a dire need for an internal audit of the job balance team to ensure that decisions are being made with regards to how actual gameplay feels instead of simply through this spreadsheet/paint by numbers approach.

At this point I'm convinced it's a decision for some out of touch future proofing, that should be saved for 6.5/7.0

If they wanted to remove Kaiten and make larger overall changes, they should have saved Kaiten's removal for 6.5, and give us the new stuff shortly after in 7.0 while introducing real QOL and skill floor solutions (during 6.1-6.4) like the ones I've suggested.
Warm us up to change like they did with QOL changes on Monk throughout SHB, then make real changes at the next expansion. No one would be unhappy for the early patch cycles, and it would build up trust for a change like Kaiten's removal.
As it is currently it's hard to trust the direction of Samurai's design as it clearly offers nothing in place of 6.0 (every "positive" change is contentious from potencies, crit synergy, to tenka goken, nothing offers a pure improvement in place of what we had before).

Going potentially 5 patch cycles without Kaiten (which is unlikely imo due to feedback) aka 2 years after many locked Samurai in as their main during the 6.0 cycle is beyond ridiculous.
Oh and yes please revert 6.1 Samurai changes thank you.

[Silnoa]

I think you have the right of it. From what I've read on this, it sounds like Kaiten was difficult for them to design around, but there isn't a lot of detail on why exactly. If you look at these changes through that lens, it makes sense that a primary goal of these changes was to remove Kaiten. I suspect that the devs locked in on removing Kaiten early in the process and that explains why they did not do some of the button merging ideas players have suggested as alternatives that would be more aimed at reducing button bloat. Essentially, button bloat was not the problem the devs were trying to solve.

What I'm unclear on is what the nature of their "restriction" with Kaiten was. Was it just causing problems for patch to patch balancing or was more of a difficulty when trying to make changes for major expansions (like adding new actions). If it was the latter, I 100% agree that they should have waited until 7.0 to remove Kaiten.

Ultimately, my biggest problem with the changes is that the rotation feels hollow now. Without something else to spend Kenki on we're left just spamming Shinten and Kenki may as well not even exist anymore, and that just isn't very fun. I think I'd be more ok with the changes if they added something else to spend Kenki on that would impact the rotation in a meaningful way.


A translated quote from Yoshi P. from the FFXIV Reddit Discord Translation\Live Letter Channel (https://discord.gg/ffxiv):
"...and on Kaiten getting removed we did that because we want to do away having to be restricted by that move"

[CelestiCer]

I think you have the right of it. From what I've read on this, it sounds like Kaiten was difficult for them to design around, but there isn't a lot of detail on why exactly.

I agree. They did all of it to solve the problem of " Absolutely Nothing ".

• They did not fix imaginary Button Bloat issues
• They did not fix imaginary Action Bloat issues
• Kaiten removal was unneccary to achieve auto-crits
• Heck Kaiten could have been the reason to achieve auto-crits
• Aesthetically a big loss for many SAM mains
• Rotation feels hollow and Kenki Management destroyed
• Skill-Ceiling and Skill-Floor lowered
• No one even asked for Kaiten removal to begin with

Lastly, the excuse to replace Kaiten? since it's indicated with the description noting SAM feels quote " Restrictive ", restrictive from what? rotation? design? hard to add new skills? from what? Kaiten could have been perfectly been left alone until they are ready on the big Patch to show something that is either equally as good or better to replace it ( with btw, tall task ).

Cause so far, Kaiten has been replaced with " Absolutely Nothing " to Fix " Absolutely Nothing "