What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[Midareyukki]

I don't even get why "but players knew" is an argument against feedback in the first place.

Lets say you have a favorite restaurant. You like it, but the menu is a bit boring and hasn't changed at all in years so customers request some variety. The restaurant adds a few new dishes, but tells you that cooking food is hard, so they're going to cut a few ingredients, half cook it and leave the occasional bit of turd in it. But they might cook it properly later!

Customers respond with the feedback that "hey, half done meals with surprise turds aren't very appealing, we aren't happy" and next thing a small group of random people appear out of nowhere, shove them back and yell at them them to shut up, eat it and that they should be happy to pay money for it because the restaurant told them the food would be crap from the start.

Makes no sense? Exactly.

We knew only part of it. We didn't know it would be as hard a "No" as it ended up becoming. We didn't know that the devs would begrudgingly work on this. What we did know was that at the time of release we wouldn't have as much stuff, but they'd be added as the game evolved. Especially with player feedback. That's always been their initial promise. And they haven't done anything to change that tune.

So saying "You guys knew you'd have a bad quality product" is not only erroneous, but grossly insulting. No one at the time knew. Not a single one. And even if we knew, SO WHAT.

Viera as a whole got implemented because people asked. Same for male viera, they're only in the game to begin with because people asked. Blue Mage, for all its troubles, got added because people asked. So much crap in this game only exists because people asked.

We didn't know that the races they'd implement would forever have terrible quality. And saying we should know any better is the most White Knight thing one could do, it makes Paladins look dark. Because from the information we had at the time, no one thought it'd get to this state.

[LisSquid]

We didn't know that the devs would begrudgingly work on this. ... We didn't know that the races they'd implement would forever have terrible quality.

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

[Midareyukki]

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

It's as I said in the Hrothgar hair thread about twice now. No one asked for Hrothgar, not even the furry fandom thought it'd be done. At least, there wasn't as much of a demand as Viera, and that one demand happened because of concept art from early Heavensward. Square themselves thought it was a good idea to add Hrothgar. Which <--- you can tell I honestly like. But given how they're being treated, one really needs to ask what changed. Why are they so resentful?

I think it was StormChurro who said that maybe the reason they're so resentful is because, to them, the races were complete? But there was no indication that they were, and after 3 years of listening to fans of both Viera and Hrothgar complain that they wanted more and wanted to be treated like all the other races, how did they not see it coming?

[CrownySuccubus]

According to the devs themselves, they always wanted to make a more "bestial" race. You can see this in the early designs for Au Ra, which were a lot more draconic.



For some reason, they decided to go in a much more human route, and the Au Ra women in particular were made much, much cuter.



So the Hrothgar were sort of their "do-over" to finally create a bestial race, and even then, they still chickened out and decided not to add women. Personally, I can only hope that when the FemGar finally are released, they look even HALF as badass as the earlier dragonlady designs.

[Midareyukki]

So the Hrothgar were sort of their "do-over" to finally create a bestial race, and even then, they still chickened out and decided not to add women. Personally, I can only hope that when the FemGar finally are released, they look even HALF as badass as the earlier dragonlady designs.

kkron_m's art on twitter is how I personally wish they'd go for female hrothgar. It's nice and badass-looking without it making them too afraid of adding in another bestial playable character model.

I'd prefer those Au Ra any day though. What we got look a bit too much like porcelain dolls...

[CrownySuccubus]

kkron_m's art on twitter is how I personally wish they'd go for female hrothgar. It's nice and badass-looking without it making them too afraid of adding in another bestial playable character model.

I'd prefer those Au Ra any day though. What we got look a bit too much like porcelain dolls...

Yeah, unfortunately, never gonna happen.

At best, when the FemGar come out I see them looking like Cheetara and Pumira from Thundercats. Corporate creators like SE are typically afraid of making female characters less conventionally attractive. Especially in Japan, where Moe and Kawaii are so normalized.

[KizuyaKatogami]

According to the devs themselves, they always wanted to make a more "bestial" race. You can see this in the early designs for Au Ra, which were a lot more draconic.



For some reason, they decided to go in a much more human route, and the Au Ra women in particular were made much, much cuter.



So the Hrothgar were sort of their "do-over" to finally create a bestial race, and even then, they still chickened out and decided not to add women. Personally, I can only hope that when the FemGar finally are released, they look even HALF as badass as the earlier dragonlady designs.

Right, the devs themselves wanted it. So it was their own selfish desires that gave birth to a half assed race that yoshi p for as much as he preached how much he wanted them doesn’t even play, and they’re all starting to get an attitude and even mock hrothgar players whenever asked about their development.

[CrownySuccubus]

Right, the devs themselves wanted it. So it was their own selfish desires that gave birth to a half assed race that yoshi p for as much as he preached how much he wanted them doesn’t even play, and they’re all starting to get an attitude and even mock hrothgar players whenever asked about their development.

Unfortunately, that about sums it up.

[SturmChurro]

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

If they knew this game would have a 10-year plan at the time, I bet hrothgar would have never been released.

I seriously doubt they want to release female hrothgar. They are probably only doing it out of obligation since male viera set the precedent of the counterparts being released, but also to show they are listening.

I missed this..

I think it was StormChurro who said that maybe the reason they're so resentful is because, to them, the races were complete? But there was no indication that they were, and after 3 years of listening to fans of both Viera and Hrothgar complain that they wanted more and wanted to be treated like all the other races, how did they not see it coming?

Yes, these races were complete to them. They were meant to be limited from the outset, and they were never even originally supposed to have male viera. They stated the only reason they have minor headgear is because some devs took time out of their days to make them work. They have stated the only reason male viera exists, is because devs supposedly spent their free time making male viera available for the community. I think they view any updates to these races as bonuses, rather than finishing something incomplete.

They stated prior to release that they wouldn't get headgear, they have stated time and time again about their custom heads making updates to them difficult. They constantly reiterate this, and even posted such again in the hrothgar hair thread. They probably see the community as demanding updates, for something that was never meant to be expected in the first place.

[Midareyukki]

Right, the devs themselves wanted it. So it was their own selfish desires that gave birth to a half assed race that yoshi p for as much as he preached how much he wanted them doesn’t even play, and they’re all starting to get an attitude and even mock hrothgar players whenever asked about their development.

Yep, pretty much. Except it now backfired because they have people who actually like them and want them more complete.

Still, I just hope that people don't realize that that's what the devs thought and start defending their decision to look at Hrothgars with disdain. We already had 3 years of bullcrap comments aimed at us, and we're still looked down upon for being "the furry race". We don't need any further crap.