ARR Dungeon Changes

[ryouma17]

Let's go ahead an tone down ultimates and make a roulette for them as well.

While we are at it, lets go ahead and provide loot to everyone just for attempting any piece of content.

sounds good to me

[SnowVix]

What I appreciated is that the fights in Copperbell Mines were unique. Using a bomb to destroy the blob or lots of adds as a boss. It's the sort of idea we could have more of to make dungeons more interesting. The changes do give new players a sense of modern dungeon design though. Before this there was a really big difference between what we play in ARR and what we play in EW.

that's a very rose-tinted glasses view of the fight. you know what i remember of it? falling asleep as a caster dps because i have literally nothing to do when the non-caster dps kills the add that needs to be killed before i can even finish a cast bar.

[Allegor]

On one hand, I actually love that they at least have multiple mechanics now, and the addition of tankbuster/stack markers is a nice touch for people to learn early on what they mean. I really hope they eventually expand similar updates throughout all the ARR and HW dungeons, not just the MSQ ones. Maybe even alliance raids (I'm looking at you, purple stack marker in WoD that doesn't look like a stack marker)

On the other hand, as tedious as most of the low level dungeons were, I did like how they had unique gimmicks attached to them, like the bomb mechanic in Copperbell, or the cannons in Stone Vigil/against Livia - sure, they were tedious because you only needed 1-2 people and everyone else could alt+tab in the meantime, but that's only because they were badly implemented, not because the idea itself was flawed. I don't know, I kinda liked needing to interact with our surroundings to defeat the bosses, rather than just....beating them down with brute force like piñatas while dancing through aoes. And I'm admittedly concerned they may only double down on these kind of 'babyproofing' changes.

[SnowVix]

On one hand, I actually love that they at least have multiple mechanics now, and the addition of tankbuster/stack markers is a nice touch for people to learn early on what they mean. I really hope they eventually expand similar updates throughout all the ARR and HW dungeons, not just the MSQ ones. Maybe even alliance raids (I'm looking at you, purple stack marker in WoD that doesn't look like a stack marker)

they actually did change that one

[FoxyAreku]

I think it was entirely unnecessary to turn totorak into a hallway, but seeing them make unique bosses for these instances is pretty cool.

Mixed on it.

[StriderShinryu]

I've only done a couple of them so far but for the two I have done:

Copperbell - I'm someone who actually appreciated the concepts behind all 3 bosses. I think they could have done some interesting things had they continued with some of these ideas, or at least executed what they had here better. But the way the fights were actually done was 100% coma inducing, and they also felt very out of step with a lot of the fights even a little bit later in the game. Either the fights needed to live up to their unique mechanics or they needed to be redone completely, so the latter made more sense. I'll miss the old ones but really only in a sort of rose tinted glasses, what could have been, way.

Toto Rak - This one really feels off to me now. I get that some people didn't like the twisty, windy alternate paths and what have you, but I actually enjoyed it. Even if you straight lined it, it felt more like a real old school RPG dungeon to me, and there were those couple of switch backs in the pathway that new players always fell for.. and that always made me smile. Overall design aside, what I really miss the most, though, is just how dank, dark and dangerous it used to feel. It used to be the sort of place you would only go to if you absolutely had to but now with the bright sunlit clearings and greenery it feels more like somewhere you'd go on a picnic. I can understand the new dungeon design but the new lighting and visuals completely killed the mood and vibe it had before.

[Broken_Wind]

I've only done a couple of them so far but for the two I have done:

Copperbell - I'm someone who actually appreciated the concepts behind all 3 bosses. I think they could have done some interesting things had they continued with some of these ideas, or at least executed what they had here better. But the way the fights were actually done was 100% coma inducing, and they also felt very out of step with a lot of the fights even a little bit later in the game. Either the fights needed to live up to their unique mechanics or they needed to be redone completely, so the latter made more sense. I'll miss the old ones but really only in a sort of rose tinted glasses, what could have been, way.

Toto Rak - This one really feels off to me now. I get that some people didn't like the twisty, windy alternate paths and what have you, but I actually enjoyed it. Even if you straight lined it, it felt more like a real old school RPG dungeon to me, and there were those couple of switch backs in the pathway that new players always fell for.. and that always made me smile. Overall design aside, what I really miss the most, though, is just how dank, dark and dangerous it used to feel. It used to be the sort of place you would only go to if you absolutely had to but now with the bright sunlit clearings and greenery it feels more like somewhere you'd go on a picnic. I can understand the new dungeon design but the new lighting and visuals completely killed the mood and vibe it had before.

The funny thing with Toto Rak is I think the alternative path through the first section was actually a tiny bit faster, but no one ever took it.
My dream would be some non linear dungeons, maybe even dungeons where objective and boss locations change like EQ's LDoN

Im curious about what you liked about the first Copperbell boss though. It was just a bunch of regular mobs. They use this occasionally still, but dont think normal enemy gauntlet works wells for a boss fight
Third fight mechanics, assuming at some point you had to kill the adds...I just dont find it that memorable or interesting

I agree on second boss, interesting idea but bad execution. The hard mode bomb fight fares better

[StriderShinryu]

Im curious about what you liked about the first Copperbell boss though. It was just a bunch of regular mobs. They use this occasionally still, but dont think normal enemy gauntlet works wells for a boss fight
Third fight mechanics, assuming at some point you had to kill the adds...I just dont find it that memorable or interesting

I agree on second boss, interesting idea but bad execution. The hard mode bomb fight fares better

I suppose I just like the idea of controlled chaos style add fights. They have dipped into the idea here and there so it's not a completely foreign idea but it's just something different than the usual One Big Dude Who Hits Hard. Maybe they could have actually had a pseudo enrage style mechanic where if you let too many Spriggans survive the bomb enemies would explode faster or something. I don't have any specific ideas but I like the idea of a horde mode style encounter.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I keep hoping to get one of the redone instances, but instead I've had the Tower of Zot four times this week. Damnit RNGsus, appease my curiosity!

[Garnix]

Might as well if homogenization is the plan. Just make T3 a solo instance, tone down the other raids, add them all to the raid roulette, and add savage versions for the first and third tiers.

Yes that's pretty much what I have in mind.
Tone them all down to make a 'Normal' mode.
Rename the current ones as 'Savage'.
Maybe adjust some of the markers. Remove some trash here and there.
For T6-T9, keep the savage version for Savage, ditch the current 'normal' mode.
Include the new Normal mode in the raid roulette.

Veteran players are not doing those raids anymore (unless they have to quickly solo one for Wondrous Trails or a piece of glam).
Most newcomers just ask for someone to carry them through it which is not fun for anyone.
So it would be a gain for everybody. Would like to fight Bahamut occasionally on roulettes.