Macrocosmos completely invalidating the P3S heal check is stupid

[Mortex]

Yeah? Then perhaps consider Zodiark. He has an HP = 1 Mechanic which we Macro. It DOES NOT HEAL TO FULL, about half as it should be. Also, since when are we talking about “weaknesses”? That sounds like a straw man out of a hat that isn’t very lucrative to this discussion.

I’ll repeat what has echoed through this thread for sake of brevity though: Macrocosmos only does this on one mechanic. ONE.

It’s more of a problem for the community at large refusing to learn alternatives to Macrocosmos - which tends to be a trend every expansion when it comes to raid strategy with 1000 different ways to solve a Rubix Cube.

Macro gives you the option in p4s phase teo too two man soak the stacks in act two both times so the meeles don’t lose uptime. And there are way more possibilities it’s way more effective and stronger then anything white mage has. In any movement scenario we’re you need big heals afterward it becomes even better. If we had that for example back in tea for wormhole or eden 12 s shiva mechanic it would made everything way more easy.

[Mortex]

AST isn’t good at everything. It lacks the mitigation that our Barrier Healers have(and yes even if Neutral grants an advantage, it’s slight in hindsight), It also is heavily reliant on spacing its healing CDs properly, more so because you’re having to wait on 60/90s timers half the time. I’ll agree AST does a lot that overshadows WHM every step of the way - but I’ll disagree that it stigmatizes an entire role for a raid tier given it’s probably because the community loves to bandwagon off World First and Balance Discord since Stormblood.

Yeah but white mage has only 4 ogcd aoe healing tools ( I count wings as a healing tool because in the end it’s nothing more and nothing less, and normally as whm you let your co healer ogcd heal the dmg that came after anyway) and 3 single target ogcd heals the aoe skill cooldowns are 45/90/120 and 180 seconds cd and you use the 45 second heal on cd for the dmg and mana gain so you have a lot of times we’re you overheal because holding it 15 seconds is a waist and the single target heals are 60/180 and two charges on bension (it’s a shield yes but it’s still a 500 potency heals at the end of the day).

Now take astro for example the job has 5 aoe ogcd with 60/60/60/90 and 180 seconds cooldown ( people sleep on horoscope when it has 200 heal every minute for free as baseline with isn’t much but can also be used in combination with neutral to give big shield and free heal on a button press) and that’s with good rng when you never get a queen. These heals you can always use for healing so you can use them way more effective and situational then assize and one of them gives also a 10 % dmg reduce for 5 seconds ( 10 % dmg reduce is always better then 10 % healing for 90 % of the scenarios you encounter in FF 14) also it has 5 ogcd single target heals with 45/30/60 seconds cooldown plus dignity (has 400-900 potency that caps at 900 when the target has 30 % hp left with isn’t even that scary in ff 14) and intersect ( it can also crit something that bension can’t and even then it is 100 potency stronger baseline) have two charges and Exaltation is better in every way then aqua veil because 5 % less dmg taken isn’t as powerful as a 500 potency heal in a diminishing returns setting we’re the tank uses defensive cooldowns himself.

Also astro has infinite mana in comparison to white mage. Of course you can clear all the content with whm but it’s nowhere near astros lvl of strength and with SE’s white mage mentality that it has too be the “baby healer” it never will be.

[Hanayumi]

For Whm really wish all affliatus skills were ogcd and that we could slap the lilybell stacks on anyone rather than having them on ourselves, would be so much happier.

[EaMett]

> Healer LB3
> One single ability from a BS overtuned healing job

Eeeeeeeeehhhhh I think the party appreciates being able to use melee LB3 instead. "merely" using LB3 instead of a single ability, what the hell.

This is one instance in one fight. Not something that should invalidate any ability. If you don't want to LB you can just heal through stuff, or you can take an ast into the fight. Just like if you want to invalidate FoF you can take a whm (or sch)... or just get on with your life and do your best healing it. Or if you want to invalidate any other [insert mechanic] then take [insert class/skill here]. There are going to be plenty of mechanics that one healer is going to do significantly better at than another, pointing fingers at one mechanic with one comp isn't going to demonstrate much. What CDs does the AST/SGE comp have available at that point in the fight? Do you know? How would they tackle the mechanic without macros? etc. etc. There's way more that goes into balancing comps/encounters than just "whaaa ast broken here"

For ONCE we get class design that isn't homogenized to the ground. Where some healers are getting us through some mechanics easier than others. Do some skills need a bit of a buff (looking at you WHM) sure. But it's totally a step in the right direction. Yet players still find a reason to pull us back to every healer getting the same rehashed kit.

[Rika007]

For ONCE we get class design that isn't homogenized to the ground. Where some healers are getting us through some mechanics easier than others. Do some skills need a bit of a buff (looking at you WHM) sure. But it's totally a step in the right direction. Yet players still find a reason to pull us back to every healer getting the same rehashed kit.

That really is my issue here. Macrocosmos is actually a really good ability and not just in it's power. It's well built. Easy to understand in it's application and while not stupidly difficult to use in practice, actually requires more then a single braincell to get the best use out of in a fight. It's a true CAPSTONE ability. The idea of every jobs capstone abilities should make that player feel like a god when they use it, thats the fantasy of them. The first time I busted out Ogi Namikiri it made me cackle like I was insane. I got that same feeling off of Macro, and when healers currently lack fun and interesting gameplay that empowers them, our first reaction to the one ability that stands above others should NOT be to tear that ability down.

I actually feel Expedient is the closest other ability that gets to this feeling, which is hilarious after how hard we meme'd on it in the initial trailer. Scholar's overall kit is really coloring the job wrong, cause honestly expedient feels amazing to use (could use with a more visually engaging animation though).

[Cheremia]

Full Liturgy vs. One single dungeon AoE with (probably could have soaked the markers before too, was just lazy)

https://imgur.com/a/Y7jT2Qr (cant direktlink gif right now for whatever reason, dont ask me)

Considering thats a baby aoe it really heals a lot in my opinion.

Still think that macrocosmos basically invalidates every aoe its used on, you lose so little hp (or none at all because hefty aoe) that it basically is just on the level of Lilybell at any point

All i'm saying is that its not only good in savage, its good any time its used.
At least in my opinion.

[Rika007]

Lilly Bell's niche use really does put a much bigger magnifying glass on Macrocosmos. It's why I'm just personally against the idea of nerfing Macro first. A capstone ability should FEEL strong in ALL situations no matter how trivial they are. There's no surprise Bard and Monk players were unhappy last expansion, and big parts of the reason for that unhappiness was due to disappointing capstone abilities that couldn't be relied upon or were situational at best.

I would much rather focus on finding the ways to bring Lilly Bell in line with Macro. From a standpoint of potential, I love the idea of Lilly Bell. A true totem heal in a game where all we so far have has been bubbles at best that gets close to it. It could be a very unique powerful ability, it just was applied in a really poor way. I would love to see the dev team just rework it so the White Mage can choose to 'pulse' the bell themselves. It wouldn't take anything fancy. Just the moment you place it the Icon changes to an actionable combo, letting the healer use it again to consume one of the 5 stacks. You know how good that would feel for a White Mage to be in raid wide damage situations and weave in pulses of the bell while they glare? That would really just lay into the feeling of healing and damage powerhouse a White Mage should have.

[Cheremia]

Lilly Bell's niche use really does put a much bigger magnifying glass on Macrocosmos. It's why I'm just personally against the idea of nerfing Macro first. A capstone ability should FEEL strong in ALL situations no matter how trivial they are. There's no surprise Bard and Monk players were unhappy last expansion, and big parts of the reason for that unhappiness was due to disappointing capstone abilities that couldn't be relied upon or were situational at best.

I would much rather focus on finding the ways to bring Lilly Bell in line with Macro. From a standpoint of potential, I love the idea of Lilly Bell. A true totem heal in a game where all we so far have has been bubbles at best that gets close to it. It could be a very unique powerful ability, it just was applied in a really poor way. I would love to see the dev team just rework it so the White Mage can choose to 'pulse' the bell themselves. It wouldn't take anything fancy. Just the moment you place it the Icon changes to an actionable combo, letting the healer use it again to consume one of the 5 stacks. You know how good that would feel for a White Mage to be in raid wide damage situations and weave in pulses of the bell while they glare? That would really just lay into the feeling of healing and damage powerhouse a White Mage should have.

Longer duration, auto waves weaker heals.

It doesnt need one big heal if done right, the small heals work fine too.

It could also be a thing you put down and stays for a minute and you chose when it detonates for a fixed amount of times, since whm can now weave, so pressing a button between glares can be nice.
Not like i have good ideas, but Lillybell is really too weak compared to Macrocosmos.

My comparison just shows that Macrocosmos almost hits the same amount of healing with an DUNGEON AOE where it only takes 50% of it? Thats insane.

[QooEr]

Tight timing?
See a big aoe coming?
Use it.

why would i waste the strongest heal ast has on just some plain old aoe i can heal with earhtly star? im talking about things like, just off the top of my head, using macrocosmos for things like p2s changeling flow so that it heals people after the first set of mechanics go out so that neither healer has to heal that mechanic. too early and you miss the puddles, too late and people die to the next push. i also use it for act 2 of p4s, at the exact moment that i have enough time to move to do the mechanic while also managing to hit everyone, and also fully heal all the damage at the end before the next big raidwide. if my gcd isnt aligned perfectly i have to clip the gcd or else i wont be able to actually heal everyone in time or its gonna be too early and get wasted.

those 2 are just examples off the top of my head where i can save a lot of healing if i plan my usage correctly, and im sure plenty more examples will pop up.

It has a 15 second duration, if you use it before the cast time of the enemy is done, it will work.
Used 90 ast for the first time yesterday and i play from EU on an NA server and i had not a single problem using it in time since it also has a 15 second soak duration.

the key point im trying to make here is making the most out of it. im not gonna waste macrocosmos on random boss attacks that i dont even need to gcd heal in the first place. if the party is gonna spread out too much to actually heal them, you can take those 15 seconds to your advantage, but youll have to actually time macrocosmos so that the timer on microcosmos runs out at just the right moment.

[Cheremia]

Yoink

Ah, gotcha!
Just learning timing of skills and what else you can squeeze in, makes sense.

I dont do savage and only tested macrocosmos on single aoes for now, just to see how much it heals first and how much i can greed it and all.
I wanna see the cheese on single things because it feels way stronger than it's "supposed" to but i suck at math anyways.
Its really strong even for single baby aoes too, tho, which is just really funny. But of course if you can organize heals better, you'd want to soak more damage, yeah.