Macrocosmos completely invalidating the P3S heal check is stupid

[elioaiko]

This is probably why Macrocosmos will get nerfed, and it\\'s sad, it\\'s truly a unique ability that they\\'ve designed in awhile.

Honestly, I just don\\'t think they were intending for it to completely ignore the mechanic. I mean, they are the ones that design the fight and still the tool tip does say 50% of the damage you take, of course it\\'s gonna top you off, you\\'re literally taking 999999 damage.

And while I agree that it shouldn\\'t invalidate it, saying that AST should be nerfed is the vicious cycle that causes the devs to completely destroy it because it\\'s better designed than WHM.

And yes, I said that, WHM is the one that needs a buff/rework. Instead of nerfing AST and ignoring the obvious issues it has (really high APM, cards feeling really bad), ask for SE to give WHM something that can compete. Lilybell isn\\'t useful there as you can\\'t heal until the blasts go off and only proc\\'ing it once unless you have the 4x, and even then, it only matters after the fact. .

And then whenever WHM is not doing so well in actually healing the party, the devs go ahead and destroy the other healers (ala ShB) because they need to be on WHM\\'s level in order to be "balanced". So only having direct healing clone spells, cookie-cutter regens painted oGCD and zero identity is the only way for healers to truly be on the same level?

I\\'m tired of this narrative that it\\'s AST\\'s fault that WHM is being looked down upon by the community. People will to clear with the least amount of resistance so that\\'s why AST is preferred because it\\'s healing is powerful whereas WHM at an optimal POV is the worst teammate to have, seeing as they only have a handful of healing tools that doesn\\'t impact their uptime. Everytime I play WHM on an optimal run, the co-healer will always output more healing than what I can do WHM unless I GCD heal to match that when they can do just by timing their oGCDs. And the fact that Misery isn\\'t even DPS-neutral makes matters worse, WHM isn\\'t even rewarded for GCD healing like the devs want them too. They have no other utility other than Temperance.

Do you see the problem here?

WHM CAN do Death\\'s Toll however at their MP and GCD timing\\'s mercy.

While yes, AST can straight delete the mechanic with one button (this is more of an issue of how they make you take damage and didn\\'t account for it), asking them to nerf will result in them either deleting it entirely or nerfing it into irrelevancy. I would rather them tune the mechanic to not play into Macrocosmos\\'s strength tenfold.

So with that, let\\'s ask for WHM to get buffs instead and possibly a mid xpac rework (unlikely).

Although I can already see the dev team destroying AST yet again so people will stop complaining about them and leave WHM untouched.

[Semirhage]

I'm tired of this narrative that it's AST's fault that WHM is being looked down upon by the community. People will to clear with the least amount of resistance so that's why AST is preferred because it's healing is powerful whereas WHM at an optimal POV is the worst teammate to have, seeing as they only have a handful of healing tools that doesn't impact their uptime. Everytime I play WHM on an optimal run, the co-healer will always output more healing than what I can do WHM unless I GCD heal to match that when they can do just by timing their oGCDs. And the fact that Misery isn't even DPS-neutral makes matters worse, WHM isn't even rewarded for GCD healing like the devs want them too. They have no other utility other than Temperance.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time you don't think having AOE Benediction is a tad disgustingly overpowered, especially on a job that's already in an incredibly comfortable spot even without it? None of the other jobs have a potential infinite potency AOE heal without burning a third level limit break. That'd be like Reaper getting a 5000 potency attack on a 3 minute cooldown. That's busted.

[Mansion]

Being AST / SGE / WHM this tier, if anything I'm kind of annoyed that I have to be on AST for P3S just for this. But then, it's just strong for this one mechanic, like Lillybell is on FoF as people said.

If there is anything to touch on AST, I'd say the opener where I have to double weave Draws and Redraws, Lightspeed, Astrodyne, Divination, Earthly Star, Minor Arcan and its Play button, and mitigation CDs within 10 seconds.

[quotey]

I think it's fine and cool.

[ty_taurus]

What makes this particular situation with Death's Toll so odd is specifically the healing received down debuff everyone receives after. Macrocosmos allows us to ignore that because even if you reduce half of 999999 damage, that's still topping people off, but what was the intent of the mechanic in the first place? Were we intended to use healer LB3 to meet that check? Healing through it is rough no matter what healers you have, and I can only imagine it was more brutal at launch. If the goal is that they wanted to force us to LB3, then just make the debuff reduce healing received to 1 outside of tools that deliberately max heal (i.e. LB3 and Benediction). If they intended for it to be healed through, then perhaps the damage formula of each AoE should be changed to deal your current max HP as damage, meaning the first hit would hit your for exactly whatever your HP is, then each other hit would just amount to 1. In that instance, Macrocosmos would now only restore 50% of your max HP.

[elioaiko]

What, the party has to sit through this whole 20s song and dance just to set up a mechanic that is handled with one button? That's just dumb.

That mechanic is really no one's problem besides the healers and I'm not counting moving to your positions because everyone has to do that, healers included on top of healing through it.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time you don't think having AOE Benediction is a tad disgustingly overpowered, especially on a job that's already in an incredibly comfortable spot even without it? None of the other jobs have a potential infinite potency AOE heal without burning a third level limit break. That'd be like Reaper getting a 5000 potency attack on a 3 minute cooldown. That's busted.

I think perhaps should be tuned to heal your HP bar at 50% as way for it to be worth the 3 min CD, that way it's not OP. But I personally love the idea of Macro from a design stance–being rewarded for using it on a healer-demanding mechanic.

And fair point on the RPR thing but RPR isn't OP anymore and they didn't have to nerf them, they brought SAM, BLM, MNK up to par. Now people aren't saying that it's OP like at launch.

Of course it should be tuned but I'd rather they buff WHM to have unused Lilybell stacks saved up or be able to burst all the stacks into one strong AoE at a very high potency. Regardless, WHM needs more control over Lilybell because if was intended to be the equivalent of Macrocosmos (they even share the same CD) then they should be able to detonated like AST can with Earthly Star and Macro. This way WHM has a strong AoE heal for Death's Toll with a PI Rapture to top everyone up.

Simply wanting AST to have to work as hard as WHM during that mechanic only showcases the purpose of why WHM struggles during that part.

WHM struggles because they have to top everyone off very quickly and a chance of failure if you start too late or someone's latency didn't register that last heal.

And quite frankly, I'm not a fan of mechanics forcing you to heal within seconds of each mechanic. It's this mechanic vomit that they string together that shows WHM's weaknesses. WHM is not built to handle sustained healing if they want to be optimal. I thought that P2S's Flood and Sewer Deluge timings were great because it spaces the mechanics out enough to where you have to think about where you're gonna use a heal without having to AoE heal constantly while everyone is spread (P4S) while dealing with your own mechanic.

But anyway, I don't disagree that Macrocosmos is too OP but it's only super OP in that mechanic specifically and should only be tuned to where the heal isn't more than your HP bar on detonation.

[Recon1o6]

tbh its just a really dumb mechanic.

Macrocosmos shouldn't be nerfed. What astro needs is the rest of its healing kit nerfed. Plus its an element of time magic given to Astro when it had all of it stripped away in shb.

Whm absolutely should get something though and some serious buffs. Its at its lowest point since stormblood. Liturgy is awful, its mp is awful, its still got nothing that other healers can't do better. Misery is still a loss

[Semirhage]

I'm still of the mind that AST doesn't need to get its heals nerfed. If they do, they might as well reduce button bloat instead first before nerfing a unique skill like this one. I'd rather they bring WHM to the same level as AST for the "Pure Healers" to be competitive, because as it is now, WHM needs a decent amount of healing redesign to be competitive.

Late Heavenward/early Stormblood begins to flash before my eyes, reminding me the healer role is trapped in Groundhog Day.

Thank heavens I'm playing DPS instead of huffing WHM copium this time around though. I've heard "just bring WHM up to match the others" so many times it gives me a nostalgia chuckle.

Outside one or two patches with egregious design flubs on the other healers that got potency buffed to compensate, WHM has been the weakest healer for about six years now. I foresee no future where Square actually stops treating this job like all its mains are masochists.

By this point WHM's identity has been "boring with garbage cooldowns" longer than it hasn't.

[Risvertasashi]

Late Heavenward/early Stormblood begins to flash before my eyes, reminding me the healer role is trapped in Groundhog Day.

Thank heavens I'm playing DPS instead of huffing WHM copium this time around though. I've heard "just bring WHM up to match the others" so many times it gives me a nostalgia chuckle.

While WHM is in a pretty terrible place, Macrocosmos goes further - people are locking slots to AST, meaning they don't event want SGE + SCH - a very performant healer combo - in no small part because macrocosmos is just that strong. So, yeah, not even an issue of bringing WHM up for this fight.

Now more to the personal side of your comment. Me too. Exact same boat here - I've played WHM for many years and been through the seasons of it being locked out of parties before.

Now I'm maining DPS and I feel like I've dodged such a bullet. Groundhog day indeed. Still makes me sad to see healers like this, though...

[Urielparadox]

People lock out sages because the vast majority of sages are just bad and never use their kit properly. How man sages have I had that end a savage fight with 0 uses of their non addersgall heals, and no zoes or the other one is terrifying. I havent had any healers struggle with death toll in p3s unless people don't group stand where they are supposed to in meelee range, no matter the job. lilly bell makes FoF trivial, its just a different skill check so to argue against death toll because macros, but ignore FoF heal check because bell is willful ignorance, rdm, mnk, rpr, dnc, all have powerful group cure aids, not to mention mitigation from feint and addle, that can be used during this time. Even without dps help it does not take healer using its entire kit. Considering what the next mechanic is sage can physics II then holos, and then the addersgall aoe and heal the whole party up by themselves. That's 1 healer, using 3 buttons instead of 2 covering the whole mech solo, with ogcds. While still having addersgal and holos back before they are needed Again. Whm can set asylum while the birds are firing, then use, temperance and medica 2, as the 3-4 bird are firing, PI Cure 3, and if needed cure 3 Again boom done. Considering it just used bell to deal with FoF. And ast have to use most of their kit. That's a pretty fair trade off. Yes whm needs work but the over exaggeration being about how ast can handle this 1 mechanic with ease and ignore the rest of the other mechanics where other healers handle with ease. While the overall mechanic for just 1 healer to handle by themselves is easy enough ignoring synergy from your co healer, from your party, from your tanks. Balance isn't about how you do in a vacuum balance is about how everything synergies