Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Ivven]

I like it. The new rework actually FINALLY (after nearly 10 years of trying) allowed the game to "click" with me. Not every job has to be massively complicated

[remiff]

I like it. The new rework actually FINALLY (after nearly 10 years of trying) allowed the game to "click" with me. Not every job has to be massively complicated

Not all jobs need to be difficult, but that's not the question of easy or not, there the job no longer has any depth and flexibility.

[CKNovel]

I like it. The new rework actually FINALLY (after nearly 10 years of trying) allowed the game to "click" with me. Not every job has to be massively complicated

Of course not. They're not asking for overly complex job.
They're just asking for a job with a bit of complexity, depth and flexibility that cannot be macro'd in a way you only need to press 1.

I mean, it's crazy when someone asks for a bit of complexity, a lot are picturing rocket science.

[Rolder50]

Of course not. They're not asking for overly complex job.
They're just asking for a job with a bit of complexity, depth and flexibility that cannot be macro'd in a way you only need to press 1.

I mean, it's crazy when someone asks for a bit of complexity, a lot are picturing rocket science.

People are especially salty about this one because they took a job that had complexity and made it one of the simplest in the game. No one complains about, say, RDM simplicity because it's always been like that.

Edit: Furthermore, in SHB we had a nice range of options on Caster. RDM for simple, SMN for moderate complexity, BLM for high complexity. Now we don't have an option for middle of the road any more.

[XmissionsX]

People are especially salty about this one because they took a job that had complexity and made it one of the simplest in the game. No one complains about, say, RDM simplicity because it's always been like that.

Indeed they took a top dps fairly complex class (at least to me) and made it low dps class without any complexity. 800 hours spend with my smn and they completely removed it from game I think this warrants some salty. Especially as it was very poorly communicated by se.

[Aiscence]

I like it. The new rework actually FINALLY (after nearly 10 years of trying) allowed the game to "click" with me. Not every job has to be massively complicated

There's nothing that needs to "click", you press 1 button for 30 seconds and the second button for the other 30 seconds. You could give the job to someone with the level hidden and say it's a lvl 50 job, no one would realize.

People have the same syndrom as mch or healers, as soon as people talk about the idea of having a bit of ceiling or depth put into the job, casuals that only wants to press one button and have always refused to learn comes with their forks.

Old smn wasnt hard: Pop bahamut -> hardcast dot -> tridaster when they come down -> summon phoenix the gcd after -> tridisaster when dots go down after phoenix -> tri disaster after using transe -> deathflare + bahamut -> hard cast dot -> loop. The rest of the time? ruin 3 and egi assault.

Worst part Ivven: They take a job that people played for 8 years for a specific reason: they like pets, dots, complexity; and made a totally different job with a middle finger to all the old players and the year of feedbacks they provided for years, basically booting them out of the job, same as mch in shb.

[aveyond-dreams]

Old smn wasnt hard: Pop bahamut -> hardcast dot -> tridaster when they come down -> summon phoenix the gcd after -> tridisaster when dots go down after phoenix -> tri disaster after using transe -> deathflare + bahamut -> hard cast dot -> loop. The rest of the time? ruin 3 and egi assault.

Worst part Ivven: They take a job that people played for 8 years for a specific reason: they like pets, dots, complexity; and made a totally different job with a middle finger to all the old players and the year of feedbacks they provided for years, basically booting them out of the job, same as mch in shb.

When you describe it like that old SMN sounds far more boring than new SMN. The gameplay loop you've just described doesn't resemble anything similar to a Final Fantasy summoner, and was considered by most to be unworthy of its namesake. I like my chain-summoning and rite/catastrophe spells far more by comparison, and I love how the job no longer physically hurts to play.

Again, jobs change in MMOs. Old SMN was a relic of the past when every other job had already been streamlined-it was an active turn off when compared to how natural most other jobs feel to play, and now new SMN is a relatively smooth experience for most. The only advice that I could give when it comes to that situation is to try out multiple jobs-Summoner was co-opted by Warlock/poison mage aesthetics and gameplay for 8 years too long.

The players who feel so strongly about this topic have been encouraged multiple time to organize their ideas for new caster job additions, seeing as how new Summoner is no longer beholden exclusively to them anymore. New Summoner will see additions and refinements over time but they will follow suit with the current design philosophy-there is no going back to past mechanics that have been universally rejected.

[Ivven]

There's nothing that needs to "click", you press 1 button for 30 seconds and the second button for the other 30 seconds. You could give the job to someone with the level hidden and say it's a lvl 50 job, no one would realize.

People have the same syndrom as mch or healers, as soon as people talk about the idea of having a bit of ceiling or depth put into the job, casuals that only wants to press one button and have always refused to learn comes with their forks.

Old smn wasnt hard: Pop bahamut -> hardcast dot -> tridaster when they come down -> summon phoenix the gcd after -> tridisaster when dots go down after phoenix -> tri disaster after using transe -> deathflare + bahamut -> hard cast dot -> loop. The rest of the time? ruin 3 and egi assault.

Worst part Ivven: They take a job that people played for 8 years for a specific reason: they like pets, dots, complexity; and made a totally different job with a middle finger to all the old players and the year of feedbacks they provided for years, basically booting them out of the job, same as mch in shb.

Dude, I'm an MMO vet. I know aaaaallll about classes changing after years and years. My first MMO was FFXI where I mained PLD at NA release.

Stuff changes. You have to learn to roll with it or find a different game (or even a different genre). The nature of MMOs is just one of change every major DLC, expansion, or patch.

I like SMN now. It flows a lot more smoothly than before. If people are upset about that--I get it. Some of my favorite classes in various games (EQ2, WoW, FFXI) have been "re-balanced" and retooled and even had entire specs deleted from existence to the point I no longer enjoy or play those classes. But it doesn't affect my personal opinion on how I feel about SMN at this point in time.

And yes, there was plenty that had to "click" with me about this game before I started to enjoy it you don't get to gatekeep my experience in that regard, nor do you know the circumstances surrounding it. The class changes were one factor, but not the only factor.

[XmissionsX]

. Some of my favorite classes in various games (EQ2, WoW, FFXI) have been "re-balanced" and retooled and even had entire specs deleted from existence to the point I no longer enjoy or play those classes.

I personally also played a lot of other mmorpg, but never experienced such a complete rework of a class and have a def jokingly state that they in effect removed the class. It’s mind boggling to me and this seems only possible in ffx if they removed the necromancer class in eq2 the push back of the players would be extremely though and I would insta quit the game.

Only in ffxiv the community seems to take the stance that’s apparently completely fine to completely remove a class.

[Ivven]

I personally also played a lot of other mmorpg, but never experienced such a complete rework of a class and have a def jokingly state that they in effect removed the class. It’s mind boggling to me and this seems only possible in ffx if they removed the necromancer class in eq2 the push back of the players would be extremely though and I would insta quit the game.

Only in ffxiv the community seems to take the stance that’s apparently completely fine to completely remove a class.

You never played WoW? Because they've completely revamped several specs, including a complete overhaul of SV Hunter in Legion to the point where there is no comparing old SV with whatever melee thing it became, and that's only -one- example. Every single class in that game has undergone drastic overhauls.
Don't get me started on when PLDs were second-rate tanks to Ninjas in FFXI back in ye olden days, either.
Every single MMO that survives more than a few years goes through at least a few overhauls. It's the nature of the genre. You either get used to it and adjust or find another game to play. I've done both options.