Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Bacillus]

Sorry but, what heal?

Phoenix heals is almost always cast as a part of our rotation and never used when needed, i will not delay summon phoenix for certain mechanic at the cost of dps loss.

What i see is that there are a lot of utilities that are stuck behind bad mechanics:

- Everlasting flight requires phoenix.
- Rekindle requires Phoenix.
- Radiant Aegis depends on Carbuncle.
- Searing Light depends on Carbuncle.

Why these skills should have these requeriments? i can easily replace physick for rekindle, adding a cd to it and problem is solved.
its the same for Everlasting flight, it can be a healing cd to be casted when needed and changes into a Bahamuth version which gives a barrier.
Same with Carbuncle, i would just get rid of it and cast the skills myself.

These kind of skills must not depend on a rotation.

[tearagion]

Sorry but, what heal?

Phoenix heals is almost always cast as a part of our rotation and never used when needed, i will not delay summon phoenix for certain mechanic at the cost of dps loss.

What i see is that there are a lot of utilities that are stuck behind bad mechanics:

- Everlasting flight requires phoenix.
- Rekindle requires Phoenix.
- Radiant Aegis depends on Carbuncle.
- Searing Light depends on Carbuncle.

Why these skills should have these requeriments? i can easily replace physick for rekindle, adding a cd to it and problem is solved.
its the same for Everlasting flight, it can be a healing cd to be casted when needed and changes into a Bahamuth version which gives a barrier.
Same with Carbuncle, i would just get rid of it and cast the skills myself.

These kind of skills must not depend on a rotation.

I think I agree with you? Specific abilities relying on specific summons is cool, it's a mainstay of summoning even beyond Final Fantasy. The problem is how brutally inflexible the rotation is in regards to these abilities, and how DPS works in FFXIV. These factors combined make Phoenix heals, while strong, not even worthy of an after thought because there are only 15s in 2 mins where either can happen. It's a design failure in implementation, not in ideation.

[Tulzscha]

Sorry but, what heal?

Phoenix heals is almost always cast as a part of our rotation and never used when needed, i will not delay summon phoenix for certain mechanic at the cost of dps loss.

What i see is that there are a lot of utilities that are stuck behind bad mechanics:

- Everlasting flight requires phoenix.
- Rekindle requires Phoenix.
- Radiant Aegis depends on Carbuncle.
- Searing Light depends on Carbuncle.

Why these skills should have these requeriments? i can easily replace physick for rekindle, adding a cd to it and problem is solved.
its the same for Everlasting flight, it can be a healing cd to be casted when needed and changes into a Bahamuth version which gives a barrier.
Same with Carbuncle, i would just get rid of it and cast the skills myself.

These kind of skills must not depend on a rotation.

Slipstream requires Garuda, Crimson Cyclone requires Ifrit, damn I guess those abilities don't exist either, why are there even summons? All they do is restrict abilities. Oh yeah, the job's called Summoner.

Imo they need to give SMN way more freedom for when to use summons. Separate all of them, have a different requirement for the little guys like Energy Drain instead of Bahamut, give the big summons - at least ones with utility like Phoenix - a more flexible cost (a cd with charges would work fine), sprinkle in some more options and bam the job's 50% better at least.

Having unique abilities attached to unique summons is what the job's all about but if there's no actual choice in what can be summoned when there isn't much point. Phoenix's heal is there and healers can work around it so it doesn't go to waste but it doesn't feel good or rewarding for the person playing the Summoner because there's no choice.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Slipstream requires Garuda, Crimson Cyclone requires Ifrit, damn I guess those abilities don't exist either, why are there even summons? All they do is restrict abilities. Oh yeah, the job's called Summoner.

Imo they need to give SMN way more freedom for when to use summons. Separate all of them, have a different requirement for the little guys like Energy Drain instead of Bahamut, give the big summons - at least ones with utility like Phoenix - a more flexible cost (a cd with charges would work fine), sprinkle in some more options and bam the job's 50% better at least.

Having unique abilities attached to unique summons is what the job's all about but if there's no actual choice in what can be summoned when there isn't much point. Phoenix's heal is there and healers can work around it so it doesn't go to waste but it doesn't feel good or rewarding for the person playing the Summoner because there's no choice.

Love the fact you listed damage-dealing abilities XD Those are fine being locked behind summons since most of the other jobs have that also. Do you know what isn't locked behind a phase on other jobs? Utilities! Utilities should never be dependent on part of your rotations or be locked behind a phase in your job. They should be able to be freely used when the time calls for them. That is why no matter what you say, things like M. Barrier, A. Cest, and other utilities always be stronger and better choices because those jobs have the freedom to use them when the time calls for them. Just because you think everlasting flight and rekindle are good doesn't make them good, they are flawed utilities. Some people may like them because it requires no thinking on their part on using them since they are hard-baked into the rotation, personally, I rather think and talk to my healers on when they need the help instead of just letting the game use the abilities automatically with no input from me.

[Tulzscha]

Love the fact you listed damage-dealing abilities XD Those are fine being locked behind summons since most of the other jobs have that also. Do you know what isn't locked behind a phase on other jobs? Utilities! Utilities should never be dependent on part of your rotations or be locked behind a phase in your job. They should be able to be freely used when the time calls for them. That is why no matter what you say, things like M. Barrier, A. Cest, and other utilities always be stronger and better choices because those jobs have the freedom to use them when the time calls for them. Just because you think everlasting flight and rekindle are good doesn't make them good, they are flawed utilities. Some people may like them because it requires no thinking on their part on using them since they are hard-baked into the rotation, personally, I rather think and talk to my healers on when they need the help instead of just letting the game use the abilities automatically with no input from me.

Heh. They're what would normally be niche or situational abilities but due to SMN's design they simply get spammed along with everything else. I don't think that's a good thing nor do I think the uncontrollable nature of Everlasting Flight is good design but I also think it's silly for people to call it useless because it's uncontrollable.

[Bacillus]

Heh. They're what would normally be niche or situational abilities but due to SMN's design they simply get spammed along with everything else. I don't think that's a good thing nor do I think the uncontrollable nature of Everlasting Flight is good design but I also think it's silly for people to call it useless because it's uncontrollable.

I thank first to MrJPtheAssassin to have answered your post, as i said if im not clear enough because it seems that you ignored that part in mi post, i quote myself.

These kind of skills must not depend on a rotation.

And what im refering to this is to utility skills, which again i mentioned: Everlasting flight, Radiant Aegis, Searing Light and Rekindle.

Did i mentioned Slipstream, Crimson Cyclone, etc...?

Now with your own words, you say the job is called Summoner, so by your standpoint, should we restrict Resurrection into phoenix phase because Phoenix flavor is about rebirth and healing?

And now, if the utility is uncontrolable then is no utility at all, there should be no debate about this, if im going to get damage because a boss mechanic, but carbuncle isnt there because i have bahamuth out, then whats the use of radiant aegis?

If im summoning Phoenix and everyone is healed at full, what is the use of everlasting flight? what is the use of rekindle?

So, what i want? I want to cast these four utility skills whenever i want, which also will be when needed, regardless of my damage rotation.