Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

I think one of the most egregious things is how our new lvl 90 ability is just a reskin of an ability we already have. Shadowbringer is functionally the same, looks virtually the same, sounds virtually the same, but just does more damage and doesn't cost MP. Why not have it be an upgraded version of Flood of Shadow, and give us something actually unique for our 90 ability?

...How would that be any better, though? I'd be fine with seeing it cost 3k MP and deal a Flood's more damage, but you're effectively just asking for one fewer ability to use, one fewer CD to track (however casually/passively).

Insofar as consolidation goes, the more obvious choices seems Blood Weapon <> Delirium, unless they want to make Blood Weapon an actual mechanic instead of a finnicky generator of at best one Blood and one MP spender each.

That said, what did you have in mind for something that might replace it?

[YukikoKurosawa]

...How would that be any better, though? I'd be fine with seeing it cost 3k MP and deal a Flood's more damage, but you're effectively just asking for one fewer ability to use, one fewer CD to track (however casually/passively).

Insofar as consolidation goes, the more obvious choices seems Blood Weapon <> Delirium, unless they want to make Blood Weapon an actual mechanic instead of a finnicky generator of at best one Blood and one MP spender each.

That said, what did you have in mind for something that might replace it?

No? I'm asking for more unique abilities to use, keyword being unique. Shadowbringer is just Flood of Shadow. Full stop. It's the same ability, just slightly reskined, and not costing MP. There is zero reason it should not be anything but a replacement to Flood of Shadow. As for what I'd replace it with? I don't know, I'm not the one designing abilities. Something actually unique, animation wise, sound wise, and functionality-wise. Look at what PLD's got. Cleasrly they ran out of ideas for DRK this expansion and just gave us dark bubbles.

[Colt47]

It's not complicated at all, Drk burst window is insane enough near on par with melee DPS, 2 mins burst is really strong this tier.

There's no guidance on how to achieve said rotation through visuals or any sort of clue in the game itself. That and we could have also concluded summoner rotation was not complicated in shadowbringers, but the fact it had so many buttons to go through also resulted in people often trying their best to get into the job and just falling out of it.

I'm not going to put more into this than I already stated in other threads but they got two directions to go on it, no one is going to be happy with any direction because gnashing of teeth "this isn't how I envisioned it", and this is due to the jobs rotation trying to grip onto... something from HW days, then wanting to go into a bard Cooldown kind of thing on top of a 1-2-3 combo move, and then throwing in moves that are basically warrior techniques.

They got to pick a direction, say to hell with it when it comes to the community on it because it's just crazy talk in here, and redo the class. They are either going to go more into Delirium / Blood spiller and axe the direction with Abyssal Drain entirely, or go with the Abyssal drain and axe the blood spiller. That's all there is to it. Probably also put the blood weapon on charges so we don't have that Skill Speed issue on optimization and make TBN like any other tank cooldown.

[Shurrikhan]

No? I'm asking for more unique abilities to use, keyword being unique. Shadowbringer is just Flood of Shadow. Full stop. It's the same ability, just slightly reskined, and not costing MP.

The fact that it is stronger, on a CD, and costs no MP already makes it as different an ability as Carve is from Edge, Senei is from Shinten, etc., etc.

Look at what PLD's got.

By your logic above, Paladin merely got a small damage bonus and 50% AoE on one Goring Blade combo per minute.

Yes, Shadowbringer's aesthetic is uninspired, but let's not exaggerate. It is roughly just as distinct from Flood as Carve is from Edge and Blade of Faith/Truth/Valor is from Fast/Riot/Goring.

As for what I'd replace it with? I don't know, I'm not the one designing abilities.

Given that this entire Megathread exists in large part because we think Dark Knight has, at the least since mid-2021, shown insufficient design direction, this isn't exactly the place to forgo on principle all opinion as to what ought replace what we have, lest we end up with yet another Monkey's Paw outcome when removing what we dislike.

Something actually unique, animation wise, sound wise, and functionality-wise.

Are there any more specific avenues of 'function' that might appeal to you?

[Colt47]

To be fair, I think they had to make a choice between DRK and Summoner on reworks, and the Summoner definitely needed more help than DRK did during Shadowbringers. However, when they brought all the jobs into that new 60 second window the problems with DRKs lack of a solid direction ended up coming to the fore. I'd totally expect this job to be the target of a mid-expansion to 7.0 rework for sure.

Also it is interesting to see people talk about DRKs current burst windows because this is reminding me a lot of old summoner burst windows, though probably a touch more forgiving since it's just blood weapon that lacks charges.

[Marxam]

To be fair, I think they had to make a choice between DRK and Summoner on reworks, and the Summoner definitely needed more help than DRK did during Shadowbringers. However, when they brought all the jobs into that new 60 second window the problems with DRKs lack of a solid direction ended up coming to the fore. I'd totally expect this job to be the target of a mid-expansion to 7.0 rework for sure.

Also it is interesting to see people talk about DRKs current burst windows because this is reminding me a lot of old summoner burst windows, though probably a touch more forgiving since it's just blood weapon that lacks charges.

all they had to do was revert to 4.0 DRK. AST got some of its toolkit reverted to 4.0 and Astrodyne basically has Ewer, Arrow and Balance all in one if you get 3 different seals. Needless to say, pushing DRK into higher DPS to warrant a crappier invul and defensive cds is not a consolation prize. If dps between the tanks was within 1-3% there would be very little incentive to bring a DRK over another tank. I'm also not fond of double weaving with tanks as it leaves little room to use a defensive cd. You know, the thing that tanks should be actively doing? During burst tell me when you can fit a TBN during those double weaves without clipping gcds and I will concede that DRK has the best tank rework in 6.0.

DRK is scuffed and saying that its good because of its high DPS shows what's wrong with the job. On the other hand, ppl are saying WAR has great defensive cds, which is what tank players should want in a tank.

[Malthir]

all they had to do was revert to 4.0 DRK. AST got some of its toolkit reverted to 4.0 and Astrodyne basically has Ewer, Arrow and Balance all in one if you get 3 different seals. Needless to say, pushing DRK into higher DPS to warrant a crappier invul and defensive cds is not a consolation prize. If dps between the tanks was within 1-3% there would be very little incentive to bring a DRK over another tank. I'm also not fond of double weaving with tanks as it leaves little room to use a defensive cd. You know, the thing that tanks should be actively doing? During burst tell me when you can fit a TBN during those double weaves without clipping gcds and I will concede that DRK has the best tank rework in 6.0.

DRK is scuffed and saying that its good because of its high DPS shows what's wrong with the job. On the other hand, ppl are saying WAR has great defensive cds, which is what tank players should want in a tank.

It's not scuffed it's just boring. Scuffed would be like the paladin how they NEEDED the dps increase they were functionally broken.
Drk was boring in Stormblood too they just also happened to be OP and boring, Drk back in Stormblood were even closer to warriors now.

[Absurdity]

During burst tell me when you can fit a TBN during those double weaves without clipping gcds and I will concede that DRK has the best tank rework in 6.0.

Yeah, that is one of the major issues with how Dark Knight feels to play. DrK's burst windows aren't complicated, they're just annoying because the toolkit is bloated with oGCDs every 60 seconds (and especially bloated every 2 minutes) and then 45 seconds of just spamming Souleater combo until the next burst.

On it's own this wouldn't be a problem but I noticed that the current fight design also has most mechanic spam happening during your burst phases. So you end up with a tank that is absolute busywork when the fight becomes hectic (dealing with tank mechanics, mitigating damage, doing your burst and dealing with whatever other mechanics are happening) and then incredibly dull gameplay when nothing interesting is happening in the fight either.

[Colt47]

Yeah, that is one of the major issues with how Dark Knight feels to play. DrK's burst windows aren't complicated, they're just annoying because the toolkit is bloated with oGCDs every 60 seconds (and especially bloated every 2 minutes) and then 45 seconds of just spamming Souleater combo until the next burst.

On it's own this wouldn't be a problem but I noticed that the current fight design also has most mechanic spam happening during your burst phases. So you end up with a tank that is absolute busywork when the fight becomes hectic (dealing with tank mechanics, mitigating damage, doing your burst and dealing with whatever other mechanics are happening) and then incredibly dull gameplay when nothing interesting is happening in the fight either.

Yeah, I mean it's busier than just about all the dedicated melee DPS jobs, though to be fair I haven't delved into ninja lately so I can't say on that one. I just know that RPR and SAM are definitely miles easier to deal with than DRK.

[Duskane]

I think one of the most egregious things is how our new lvl 90 ability is just a reskin of an ability we already have. Shadowbringer is functionally the same, looks virtually the same, sounds virtually the same, but just does more damage and doesn't cost MP. Why not have it be an upgraded version of Flood of Shadow, and give us something actually unique for our 90 ability?

couple abilities on DRK are rehashed
Like Dark missionary is just Dark mind but in reverse