P1N Warrior solo kill

[Nizzi]

Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending).

Cool, but you really don't need any of that. I see so many tanks, Paladins especially that have 0 clue how to hit any of their mitigation buttons, and that's what you're here to do. You don't need 2 rotations, that's DPS bloat and prevents you from focusing on what you need to be doing, which is tanking. So really, they should reduce all tanks DPS rotation to 1 DoT and their enmity generator (Shield Lob, Grit, etc) and that's all you should have. You're not here to do DPSing, if you want to DPS you should go play a DPS. You're playing a TANK, so get to TANKING.

I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

Cool, you can have just as much fun playing your PLD when we strip out all that unneeded DPS bloat you have. You need to focus on tanking, so we'll give you more mitigation.
I'm sure you definitely think it's different for you and you'll go through the mental gymnastics of justifying why you're allowed to have fun and healers aren't, but I hope you can understand why what you're saying is nonsense. Healers aren't your enemy. Just because you get random healers that are bad, that's all it means. You ran into a bad player. I get tons of tanks who randomly turn off their tank stance, never use mitigations, single target trash mobs, etc, and I'm not saying you shouldn't get to have fun. Understand the double standard.

[Azuri]

I don't see where healers are made irrelevant in Savage content

The only reason two healers are still brought to Savage is due to FFlogs only counting 4 dps/2 tanks/2 healers group as "standard comp". If Kihra were to change his mind and remove comp restriction for rankings you would immediately see groups shed one or even both healers like the liability they are.

[Arckrin]

Uh uh, I read your little spiel on how Healers don't deserve more than one dps skill because you ran into some bad apples in Party Finder, and discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs, hence the big fat bale of hay I lead my post off with. With your line of logic, bad tanks that don't know how to properly mitigate or rotate their cooldowns should have their DPS options reduced to spamming a single skill ad nauseam so they can actually focus on using their cooldowns. Sounds fair right? Right?

See what I mean?

"discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs" You are the typical person that Says “I AM CORRECT AND YOUR OPINION IS TRASH” And then ask for respect from others when you don't respect what they are saying… Oh! And you magically put words that I didn't say or think… XD

Should I say it in other words? May be like this?

We NEED to BALANCE the trinity system! But balance doesn't mean doing it around DPS metric due to the same problem we are facing now. Don't you see that THAT IS WHY the downscale? It is hard to understand? More DPS doesn't mean = GOOD or BAD?

Want a history lesson of what since HW 2015 to now days balance around DPS has rip of interesting skills?
Or are you too new that don't know about the history of healers/tanks skills and says "who cares" and keep asking DEEPS... because is what others are asking?

[Arckrin]

Cool, but you really don't need any of that. I see so many tanks, Paladins especially that have 0 clue how to hit any of their mitigation buttons, and that's what you're here to do. You don't need 2 rotations, that's DPS bloat and prevents you from focusing on what you need to be doing, which is tanking. So really, they should reduce all tanks DPS rotation to 1 DoT and their enmity generator (Shield Lob, Grit, etc) and that's all you should have. You're not here to do DPSing, if you want to DPS you should go play a DPS. You're playing a TANK, so get to TANKING.



Cool, you can have just as much fun playing your PLD when we strip out all that unneeded DPS bloat you have. You need to focus on tanking, so we'll give you more mitigation.
I'm sure you definitely think it's different for you and you'll go through the mental gymnastics of justifying why you're allowed to have fun and healers aren't, but I hope you can understand why what you're saying is nonsense. Healers aren't your enemy. Just because you get random healers that are bad, that's all it means. You ran into a bad player. I get tons of tanks who randomly turn off their tank stance, never use mitigations, single target trash mobs, etc, and I'm not saying you shouldn't get to have fun. Understand the double standard.

Look, I agree partially with you, and I am not discussing that they should do more DPS… Yet again, as I told BaconBits… that He/She wanted more dps skills on healer, and they are doing near the same output as Tanks with 1 skill… They SHOULD balance the content, not around the DPS meter. But around more other stuff (strategical example).

The thing as an example of my rotation is to illustrate the point, I agree partially about what you are saying. Because as a tank I should be paying more attention to around the environment and the boss skills, position (so all have room), mitigation, HP than my output of DPSing. And as I say yesterday here (page 19) "...People who know me knows… I prefer been the best tanky Def and be able to easy to heal to my healer, and of course put deeps on the enemies. I don't want to be the squishy tank butter that be sliced into with 1 hit."

Why is hard to understand that I don't want the OP tank Option... I don't know were you get that impression...?

Edit: Also I don't want the GOD HEALER option like in ShB that only use 4 skills on dungeon and half tools on Hard End content.

[Nizzi]

Look, I agree partially with you, and I am not discussing that they should do more DPS… Yet again, as I told BaconBits… that He/She wanted more dps skills on healer, and they are doing near the same output as Tanks with 1 skill… They SHOULD balance the content, not around the DPS meter. But around more other stuff (strategical example).

The thing as an example of my rotation is to illustrate the point, I agree partially about what you are saying. Because as a tank I should be paying more attention to around the environment and the boss skills, position (so all have room), mitigation, HP than my output of DPSing. And as I say yesterday here (page 19) "...People who know me knows… I prefer been the best tanky Def and be able to easy to heal to my healer, and of course put deeps on the enemies. I don't want to be the squishy tank butter that be sliced into with 1 hit."

You're misunderstanding what I and other healers are saying. We're not saying we want to do "higher numbers" in regards to talking about our DPS. We don't want to be overpowered with our DPS numbers. We're saying it's not fun to hit 1-1-1 over and over and twice a minute hitting our DoT as all we're allowed to do when there's no healing required (and there's a lot of that even in Savage). It's boring. Of course you can say that the solution is to make it where we need to heal more, and I don't think any healer disagrees necessarily, but realistically it will be easier to give us more to do during our downtime than it would to retune all content across the game to require more healing.
I've posted in this thread about how I don't want to nerf the tanks new sustain and healing capability. I'm glad that tanks are enjoying it and having fun, but compare that to what we all got this expansion; more bloated heals we don't need, and EW removed what little thought SCH and WHM had to do for thinking about when they healed.

I don't want to take away your fun or sustainability, though I know some do because it takes away our ability to heal. The problem isn't the tanks having their new tools, it's the fact that it further invalidates what they continually promise healers. We complain about not having fun in our downtime and the developers say "we're making things hit harder this expac, you'll need to heal more! That's why your single target rotation is 2-1-1-1" and we're in the same song and dance where we see that's not the case and healing is further invalidated and we're needed even less.

As for what they can do, just redistribute the potency of healers DPS actions across their wider variety of DPS actions. It would be more fun to manage two 35 potency DoTs with two separate timers than it is to have one 70 potency DoT of 30 seconds. I made a thread on the healer roles forum about how just adding Miasma back would make Scholar feel way better to play if you're actually curious of ideas on what they could do to make it more fun for us.

We're not asking for gigabrain complexity, we're not asking to do more damage, we're asking to have fun.

[Shurrikhan]

PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

"Oh, no, my 60-to-65-second macrorotation allows me more than a single option by which to push out a bit more short-term damage over burst periods prior to forced downtime... for which raid buffs are held anyways."

But, let me guess, if Goring Blade gave 24 seconds' of duration, up from its present 21, the rotation would be in shambles (despite you still doing the same exact thing, just with a bit more downtime leniency and further capacity in sustained two-target cleave).

Not everything has to be rigidly cut and dry and having 2 GCDs of flex space does not turn a rotation into "nonsense"; it merely makes it more flexible.

PLD simply needs a bit more damage overall (no, that flexible space is not what's causing the damage gap between you and DRK/GNB, or else Warrior wouldn't be similarly far behind) and a trait by which to duplicate SkS to SpS (at which point it could then usefully go for as low as a 2.42s GCD as it wishes for alignment purposes).

[Arckrin]

You're misunderstanding what I and other healers are saying. We're not saying we want to do "higher numbers" in regards to talking about our DPS. We don't want to be overpowered with our DPS numbers. We're saying it's not fun to hit 1-1-1 over and over and twice a minute hitting our DoT as all we're allowed to do when there's no healing required (and there's a lot of that even in Savage). It's boring. Of course you can say that the solution is to make it where we need to heal more, and I don't think any healer disagrees necessarily, but realistically it will be easier to give us more to do during our downtime than it would to retune all content across the game to require more healing.

I don't want to take away your fun or sustainability, though I know some do because it takes away our ability to heal. The problem isn't the tanks having their new tools, it's the fact that it further invalidates what they continually promise healers. We complain about not having fun in our downtime and the developers say "we're making things hit harder this expac, you'll need to heal more! That's why your single target rotation is 2-1-1-1" and we're in the same song and dance where we see that's not the case and healing is further invalidated and we're needed even less.

As for what they can do, just redistribute the potency of healers DPS actions across their wider variety of DPS actions. It would be more fun to manage two 35 potency DoTs with two separate timers than it is to have one 70 potency DoT of 30 seconds. I made a thread on the healer roles forum about how just adding Miasma back would make Scholar feel way better to play if you're actually curious of ideas on what they could do to make it more fun for us.
.

Yet you don't get the point of what I am saying… you are asking to put more DPS skills on the healers. And I am saying I agree to put MORE Skills for the healer but NOT for DPS or HEAL! Which is why I liked the Old AST card system because I could buff the party while all people when MAX heal. Now they turned only on which card I withdraw, wait a DPS card for melee! let's shuffle Oh DPS card just for casters. Which is Why I am giving a try to the SAGE this expansion to see what tools they got. (As a tank I see the healer as my co-worker trusty one, not as an intruder as u mention)

Yet again is a thing of BALANCE, and it is because devs. got RIP skills from healers that were more kinda fun to play with and give it entertain to the job. Look as tank I don't want to be the GOD tank okay? I want to survive, yes... but not without the help of my healer mate. And Also, can WE agree that healers need something to do? I am tired to repeat my self yes they NEED SKILLS and NO, NOT in DPS side just another subsystem side like old AST.

I am totally fine with asking skills and a way to feel the empty that healers are lacking, 'cause also I had my Healer side… If I don't play tank, I play healer or Dragoon.

[Ixon]

The only reason two healers are still brought to Savage is due to FFlogs only counting 4 dps/2 tanks/2 healers group as "standard comp". If Kihra were to change his mind and remove comp restriction for rankings you would immediately see groups shed one or even both healers like the liability they are.

The only reason two tanks are required are for the same stated reason and forced tank swaps after busters, literally no difference.

[Arckrin]

"Oh, no, my 60-to-65-second macrorotation allows me more than a single option by which to push out a bit more short-term damage over burst periods prior to forced downtime... for which raid buffs are held anyways."

But, let me guess, if Goring Blade gave 24 seconds' of duration, up from its present 21, the rotation would be in shambles (despite you still doing the same exact thing, just with a bit more downtime leniency and further capacity in sustained two-target cleave).

Not everything has to be rigidly cut and dry and having 2 GCDs of flex space does not turn a rotation into "nonsense"; it merely makes it more flexible.

PLD simply needs a bit more damage overall (no, that flexible space is not what's causing the damage gap between you and DRK/GNB, or else Warrior wouldn't be similarly far behind) and a trait by which to duplicate SkS to SpS (at which point it could then usefully go for as low as a 2.42s GCD as it wishes for alignment purposes).

Tell me you don't play paladin without been paladin XD

[Shurrikhan]

...

I get it; remembering to skip 2 Atonements per cycle may be hard for you, and that's okay. But a small degree of complexity by way of having other options does not "nonsense" make.