So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[LittleImp]

It’s already been pointed out that the anti parse side of this thread have been the not so civil type. Hard to see though when you hold a bias towards one side of the discussion

It has a lot to do with the underlying motivators behind either side of the issue.

You'll find that the anti-logging crowd tends to be much more emotionally motivated, and it ends up infecting a lot of their posts with a really angry tone. A lot of the time they aren't even explicitly anti-parser, they're just more broadly anti-accountability and you'll see them spewing the same angry rhetoric in posts about unsolicited advice or self-improvement. It's an issue of ego and self-worth; If one operates under the constant assumption that they are skilled or better than other people, their ego will be threatened any time someone exposes information that indicates the contrary. Just look at the person earlier who was trying to imply that greylogging still somehow puts them in the top 8% of players. There's also the fact that the vast majority of them don't even participate in the content these types of threads are usually about, but still can't resist participating in the discussion regardless. Not to mention, a lot of them seem to be people that have allowed one bad experience to define their entire outlook, which is a fairly irrational position. The person you were responding to is calling people clowns and elitists in large part due to a bad experience they had in Heavensward, which released almost 7 years ago.

On the other hand, a lot of people that are supportive of using logs in these threads tend to be speaking from a place of significant experience, and generally just try to lay out rational reasons why holding people accountable is important in the right circumstances. Most of them even openly acknowledge that parse shaming does in fact exist, but isn't nearly common enough to justify some of the opinions expressed in this thread. Most of them acknowledge that applying overly high standards in casual content is stupid. For a lot of them, it's about optimizing manhours and energy spent, rather than some fixation on gatekeeping or posturing. Wanting, or helping people to improve is antithetical to Elitism. Elitists are the types that constantly move the goalposts to make sure you never reach their 'level', or constantly define alternative standards for what it means to be 'good' at something (something which is ironically very popular amongst the anti-elitist types).

[AbysmalDuck]

It may be some people's egos that get in the way, but anytime I've ever had someone offer advice in my time in the game, it has always been either negative or shorthand. Shorthanded advice appears to be less meaningful and more of a putdown. My point is, I think there is just a communication issue. When people type in chat "job/name didn't do such-and-such", this isn't helpful and often destructive to the conversation. Putting together a sentence that shows you put effort and thought into it, may actually be taken different that "why didn't you job action".