So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Packetdancer]

Then you already know what your problem is. Fix it practices parties exist. Do EXs, dungeons and the like make that rotation muscle memory.

Leaving aside the fact that I am content to remain a healer or tank when raiding (so NIN was merely an example, not a statement on a job I actually want to play in savage), this still doesn't really solve the problem.

The "just use SSS and hit the dummy until it says you did enough damage" is capable of measuring if you'll fail; if you cannot beat that DPS check when not dealing with mechanics or damage, chances are not good you can meet the DPS check in the real fight. But it cannot really measure if you'll succeed. Nor does it give you any chance to practice more than just your rotation.

I'm not saying there isn't necessarily a place for SSS. But I am saying that SSS is a terrible tool for working to improve how well you handle a job.

(And I feel like you might be on the same page as me there, given that you recommended finding practice parties to run stuff with, rather than suggesting some way of using SSS to measure improvement in that area.)

[Packetdancer]

So.... Blue Mage solo trials?

Actually, yes. Something like the Masked Carnival but aimed at specific roles is exactly what I was thinking of. Have several for tanks, several for healers, etc. Then people can run those solo as often as they want for as long as they want, and practice in a more useful manner than just beating up a training dummy.

[Hysterior]

Since SE will never add parses in game, I was thinking of a possible QoL:

When you clear a "Stone, Sky, Sea" dummy fight, you get a sort of "certificate"
Then in PF, you would have the option to only allow folks who have the certificate of completion for that fight.

This would encourage (force) people to test their skills on "Stone, Sky, Sea" and improve their DPS before heading into PF.
And you would not need to have a proper parse since it would be implied that everyone in your group has the DPS to clear.

Do you think this could work?

[24spencer]

How do you know any of that is the case besides you fantasizing about it?

One time I logged in after losing my job. That day, I played really badly. But someone like you would say, "oh, that person boosted."

Get over yourself. You are not god's gift to gaming. You don't know why someone is struggling, or where they are in their experience at that moment. New players have to go into Savage and make mistakes in order to get better. If you don't want to deal with new players, make a static of all legends. What you're suggesting here is the exclusion of most of the playerbase. No one who goes 1->90 or 80->90 directly knows how to play their Job. It takes time for most people to do their rotation correctly. Not optimally, but correctly. It takes even more time for them to be good enough to do extremes, and more than that for them to do Savages.

You don't get to gatekeep and determine when people get to try these things.

Sorry, but if someone is literally ready to clear a savage fight in pf and someone comes into that enrage to clear party, wiping the group to the first mechanic repeatedly and doing like half the DPS they should be they are not ready to join that party and the lead has every right to kick them from *their* party.

If people are having an awful day like you said and playing badly why on earth would they willingly go into savage?

And there's plenty of places you can practice your 90 job without trapping people just trying to clear a savage fight. Hit up the level 90 normal raids or the EX trials.

[24spencer]

Since SE will never add parses in game, I was thinking of a possible QoL:

When you clear a "Stone, Sky, Sea" dummy fight, you get a sort of "certificate"
Then in PF, you would have the option to only allow folks who have the certificate of completion for that fight.

This would encourage (force) people to test their skills on "Stone, Sky, Sea" and improve their DPS before heading into PF.
And you would not need to have a proper parse since it would be implied that everyone in your group has the DPS to clear.

Do you think this could work?

This is a nice idea in principle, but SSS is consistently weirdly tuned and doesn't reflect a job's rotation properly because it's a 3m time limit and often makes you adjust your rotation to a weird 3 minute one that you'd almost never use in an actual fight

Additionally the DPS requirements are insane for certain jobs (ShB this was especially bad if I remember right) and are either way too easy or hyperreliant on crit luck

[raelgun]

How do you know any of that is the case besides you fantasizing about it?

One time I logged in after losing my job. That day, I played really badly. But someone like you would say, "oh, that person boosted."

Get over yourself. You are not god's gift to gaming. You don't know why someone is struggling, or where they are in their experience at that moment. New players have to go into Savage and make mistakes in order to get better. If you don't want to deal with new players, make a static of all legends. What you're suggesting here is the exclusion of most of the playerbase. No one who goes 1->90 or 80->90 directly knows how to play their Job. It takes time for most people to do their rotation correctly. Not optimally, but correctly. It takes even more time for them to be good enough to do extremes, and more than that for them to do Savages.

You don't get to gatekeep and determine when people get to try these things.

Your bad day isn't a reason to gate keep from players wanting to do well.
You don't get to keep others down with you, people keep saying parsers gate keep when the opposing faction wishes to gate keep good players or those that want to progress.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

All that matters to me is this.

Did we beat the boss or did we not beat the boss?

Beat the boss? Good.

We didn't beat the Boss? Let's figure out why so the next go at it is a success.

DPS meters are just pure toxicity and an excuse for certain players to treat other players like garbage. I know from WoW where DPS can widely change if you get unlucky. Such as Boss mechanics screwing you over, procs not going off, and ect.

We don't need that here in FF14.

[Caitlyn]

Since SE will never add parses in game, I was thinking of a possible QoL:

When you clear a "Stone, Sky, Sea" dummy fight, you get a sort of "certificate"
Then in PF, you would have the option to only allow folks who have the certificate of completion for that fight.

This would encourage (force) people to test their skills on "Stone, Sky, Sea" and improve their DPS before heading into PF.
And you would not need to have a proper parse since it would be implied that everyone in your group has the DPS to clear.

That may work for DPS jobs, but not for healers and tanks. And SSS doesnt check if people can actually play boss mechanics right. Its just a DPS check, which can easily beaten just by having good gear and food. The SSS will only prove, that you could beat the boss, if the boss doesnt do any movement or mechanics than going into enrage after 3 mins.

The truth is, that the game doesnt provide any kind of feedback other than clearing or wiping a raid. Thats the only feedback you will ever get from the game. But you cant tell how good YOU performed. If and where you can do better. At the end, parsers are the only way.

[Menriq]

All that matters to me is this.

Did we beat the boss or did we not beat the boss?

Beat the boss? Good.

We didn't beat the Boss? Let's figure out why so the next go at it is a success.

DPS meters are just pure toxicity and an excuse for certain players to treat other players like garbage. I know from WoW where DPS can widely change if you get unlucky. Such as Boss mechanics screwing you over, procs not going off, and ect.

We don't need that here in FF14.

Just curious how you plan on figuring out why if you don't have any idea from a DPS perspective of what the issue could be. I've done quite a few instances where I'm the tank (as PLD, the lowest DPS one by far) and I'm 2nd or 3rd on the DPS list. Does that mean I name or shame them? Nope, but it also is very telling when my dps is 1 or 2k above a DPS and they didn't die.

[Saraide]

All that matters to me is this.

Did we beat the boss or did we not beat the boss?

Beat the boss? Good.

We didn't beat the Boss? Let's figure out why so the next go at it is a success.

DPS meters are just pure toxicity and an excuse for certain players to treat other players like garbage. I know from WoW where DPS can widely change if you get unlucky. Such as Boss mechanics screwing you over, procs not going off, and ect.

We don't need that here in FF14.

What if your group's dps is just too low to clear even when you dont get damage downs or deaths? How do you plan on figuring out why you didnt clear then?