Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[MellowMink]

Ifrit Ruin is just Ruin III.

I’m sorry, but this literally isn’t true.

Ruin III:
- 310 potency
- 1.5 seconds cast time (weaving potential)
- 2.5 seconds reload time
- Doesn’t use any attunement resources

Ruby Rite:
- 430 potency
- 2.8 seconds cast time (no weaving potential, with the tradeoff of doing more damage, although Swiftcast can also be factored in unless you want to keep it for a raise instead)
- 2.5 seconds reload time
- Uses one of two fire attunement resources

And this is just comparing two particular single-target spells; there are differences across the other single-target spells as well.

Again, if you want to argue whether some spells are too similar for you, go for it, but to say that they’re exactly the same is disingenuous. The elemental spells have variations, compared to just having Ruin III with the older Summoner that was spammed frequently without having other variations; I will add that the older Summoner also had a few pet attacks, but those had annoying clunkiness and were often delayed, so I’m personally glad that those were replaced.

[Exodus-E]

- It removed Egi pets

They're still there from Lv.30~89 (and you can even glamour your Carbuncle into one), though.
Egis are still part of SMN's foundation lore-wise, so of course they wouldn't remove them. Just "rework" them.

- It didn't add any new primal summons to the job

And this one's still my biggest complaint with SMN after all these years (even with 6.0's rework).

We've been waiting for new summons for nearly 7 years now, and while they did assure us constantly through interviews and the like that they'd do something about it (namely through the "Egi glamour" system), nothing has come of it.

No Leviathan-Egi, no Ramuh-Egi, no Shiva-Egi. Nothing.

I think it's waaaaay past time they fixed this (hopefully during 6.X's run).
Because as it is, SMN being "stuck" with Ifrit/Titan/Garuda for so long (after introducing so many Primals since) is incredibly disappointing to say the least.

[mathias-merodach]

I’m sorry, but this literally isn’t true.

Ruin III:
- 310 potency
- 1.5 seconds cast time (weaving potential)
- 2.5 seconds reload time
- Doesn’t use any attunement resources

Ruby Rite:
- 430 potency
- 2.8 seconds cast time (no weaving potential, with the tradeoff of doing more damage, although Swiftcast can also be factored in unless you want to keep it for a raise instead)
- 2.5 seconds reload time
- Uses one of two fire attunement resources

And this is just comparing two particular single-target spells; there are differences across the other single-target spells as well.

Again, if you want to argue whether some spells are too similar for you, go for it, but to say that they’re exactly the same is disingenuous. The elemental spells have variations, compared to just having Ruin III with the older Summoner that was spammed frequently without having other variations; I will add that the older Summoner also had a few pet attacks, but those had annoying clunkiness and were often delayed, so I’m personally glad that those were replaced.

I believe it to be disingenuous on to act as if the rite attacks are different than Ruin when they are legitimately called their flavor of Ruin up until the trait that gives you the Rite attacks is attained at level 72. You can hit 3 expansions and the first dungeon of the third before they are called anything else. The trait that gives you the Rite attacks? -Ruin- Mastery 3.

[Imoen]

And this one's still my biggest complaint with SMN after all these years (even with 6.0's rework).

We've been waiting for new summons for nearly 7 years now, and while they did assure us constantly through interviews and the like that they'd do something about it (namely through the "Egi glamour" system), nothing has come of it.

Ya this is also why the Fire Wind Earth attunment thing annoys me, because that gives the distinct impression that they don't plan on adding any either. (I mean I could be wrong about that, that's just how it seems.). As I said in another thread, had the jobs mechanics approached the way in which you are able to summon these differently and had various reasons to pick one summon over the other in situations, I would be more hopeful for the future of the job. I mean it's w/e though. Some people dig it, I get it. I do like that we get some big boy presence now, I'll say that.

There is also that one summoner job quest (Forget the name it's been a long time) in which it seems like you might be getting Ramuh then it just doesn't happen. lol

[aveyond-dreams]

Given the fact that they already threw the "we can only be attuned to the aether of 3 primals" or whatever the old lore was out the window, I think getting new primals in 7.0 and beyond is a given. The lore behind Phoenix is shaky at best and was only ever elaborated on once in a single interview, and Phoenix isn't all too different from Shiva in that it's a primal who is also a person.

Ultimately, nowadays they think about "Is this addition fun?" first before "Is this addition adhering to lore someone else came up with 8 years ago?"

Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh, and the other primals like Lakshmi, Susanoo, and the Warring Triad are all on the table. Summoner is a Summoner now, so rather than adding abilities or spells interacting with dots or other systems, they can focus on the core of the job.

[tearagion]

We've been waiting for new summons for nearly 7 years now

Idk, I thought Bahamut and Phoenix were pretty cool new summons. There could be way more by now though I agree, especially in this new system it's baffling to me that it's still the same 3 effectively

[Exodus-E]

Given the fact that they already threw the "we can only be attuned to the aether of 3 primals" or whatever the old lore was out the window

No they didn't.

Trances are merely an alternate means of summoning (one that's more "cost-effective", aether-wise).
That whole "only being able to attune to 3 Primals' essences" (due to our own limitations) only applied to Egis, and even then we can at least change their outward appearance.

That said, they WILL have to introduce a new story justification for us being able to create Egis/"gemstone summons" that use elements beyond the ones we already use (i.e. Fire, Earth and Wind).

[dinnertime]

I’m sorry, but this literally isn’t true.

-1.5 second cast time with weaving potential vs 2.8 cast time with no weaving potential

Weave? Weave what? The only thing we could weave is Aetherflow and it's smarter to use it during Demi phases when there's definite raid buff windows. That point is quite irrelevant.

Besides you only get to use Ruin III once per minute as a filler spell, same with Ifrit's phase because it does the least damage out of the three summons.

Are they the same? No. Similar? Yes. Do they fulfill the same purpose? Yes. So basically no true variety between them.

I will add that the older Summoner also had a few pet attacks, but those had annoying clunkiness and were often delayed, so I’m personally glad that those were replaced.

And the clunkiness still exists in Radiant Aegis and Searing Light, so not entirely gone.

[Aikaal]

-1.5 second cast time with weaving potential vs 2.8 cast time with no weaving potential

Weave? Weave what? The only thing we could weave is Aetherflow and it's smarter to use it during Demi phases when there's definite raid buff windows. That point is quite irrelevant.

Besides you only get to use Ruin III once per minute as a filler spell, same with Ifrit's phase because it does the least damage out of the three summons.

Are they the same? No. Similar? Yes. Do they fulfill the same purpose? Yes. So basically no true variety between them.



And the clunkiness still exists in Radiant Aegis and Searing Light, so not entirely gone.

3 Ruin III per 2 minutes if done optimally!

But yeah, why would you favor any Ruin III spell over available Rite spells. You can't compare. I'm not up to date on the argument but I would say Ruin III definitely can,t be compared to Rite. Ruin III is your terrible filler spell you never want to cast. It's the spell you drop if you had to swift a raise. I will term in term for functionality and simplicity, they are similar. You don't feel really good just using your Rite spells until you're out of charges. If Rite was a combo of Ruin III? That'd certainly would make you cast more spells and that'd make you have a more engaging rotation.

I still feel it's incredibly silly that I must use Bahamut to gain access to I/G/T, this restricts so much potential. Searing Light, Randiant Aegis, Rekindle also should not be restricted to time frames.

[Deceptus]

Ya this is also why the Fire Wind Earth attunment thing annoys me, because that gives the distinct impression that they don't plan on adding any either. (I mean I could be wrong about that, that's just how it seems.).

Ask Monks what happened to their Elemental Attunements over the years.

Can't wait for Fire to be baseline, earth provide some defensive bonus, and wind to be basically forgotten.