Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[WlyemR]

People need to really reel themselves in a take a second to think about the so-called loss of complexity between 5.0 and 6.0 Summoner. They have all the exact same skills under different names.
One of the main complaints I see is that SMN is nothing but a Ruin spam job now, but I ask you, what was Egi Assault except a different flavored Ruin? You spammed Assault, then Ruin IV, then fell back on Ruin III. The only difference now is the name: Rite and Catastrophe. The only real change now at lower levels is that the spell animation is the same, just with different cast times and potencies. I do believe they could have put more effort into that, but in the end, it would still be the same spell with a different color, just like 5.0.
Enkindle is now Summon and Summon II. Same spell, faster cast.
The only true loss to SMN is Tri-Disaster>Bane and in its place is Astral Flow. The only real problem with Astral Flow is that it comes way too late in the interaction with the three Primal Summons at level 86. If we were to get a lesser form of the 86 Astral Flow abilities at an earlier level, that would go a long way toward alleviating the tedium.
Overall, SMN lost nothing except the dots and some button bloat. All of the other skills are till there in some form.

[rewd]

People need to really reel themselves in a take a second to think about the so-called loss of complexity between 5.0 and 6.0 Summoner. They have all the exact same skills under different names.
One of the main complaints I see is that SMN is nothing but a Ruin spam job now, but I ask you, what was Egi Assault except a different flavored Ruin? You spammed Assault, then Ruin IV, then fell back on Ruin III. The only difference now is the name: Rite and Catastrophe. The only real change now at lower levels is that the spell animation is the same, just with different cast times and potencies. I do believe they could have put more effort into that, but in the end, it would still be the same spell with a different color, just like 5.0.
Enkindle is now Summon and Summon II. Same spell, faster cast.
The only true loss to SMN is Tri-Disaster>Bane and in its place is Astral Flow. The only real problem with Astral Flow is that it comes way too late in the interaction with the three Primal Summons at level 86. If we were to get a lesser form of the 86 Astral Flow abilities at an earlier level, that would go a long way toward alleviating the tedium.
Overall, SMN lost nothing except the dots and some button bloat. All of the other skills are till there in some form.

Egi Assaults were flexible skills with charges that you could use for on demand mobility and to get Ruin IV charges which represented the build up to Bahamut, tying up together your filler phases with your burst.

You are right, though. Just same thing under a different name. Exactly the same.

[WlyemR]

Egi Assaults were flexible skills with charges that you could use for on demand mobility and to get Ruin IV charges which represented the build up to Bahamut, tying up together your filler phases with your burst.

You are right, though. Just same thing under a different name. Exactly the same.

You still have your Ruin IV blasts during Bahamut. Its called Astral Impulse.

[mathias-merodach]

People need to really reel themselves in a take a second to think about the so-called loss of complexity between 5.0 and 6.0 Summoner. They have all the exact same skills under different names.
One of the main complaints I see is that SMN is nothing but a Ruin spam job now, but I ask you, what was Egi Assault except a different flavored Ruin? You spammed Assault, then Ruin IV, then fell back on Ruin III. The only difference now is the name: Rite and Catastrophe. The only real change now at lower levels is that the spell animation is the same, just with different cast times and potencies. I do believe they could have put more effort into that, but in the end, it would still be the same spell with a different color, just like 5.0.
Enkindle is now Summon and Summon II. Same spell, faster cast.
The only true loss to SMN is Tri-Disaster>Bane and in its place is Astral Flow. The only real problem with Astral Flow is that it comes way too late in the interaction with the three Primal Summons at level 86. If we were to get a lesser form of the 86 Astral Flow abilities at an earlier level, that would go a long way toward alleviating the tedium.
Overall, SMN lost nothing except the dots and some button bloat. All of the other skills are till there in some form.

People, like myself, call it a Ruin spam job, because for the majority of your time leveling it is basically all you are doing. Gemshine itself, when it activates after using a summon, is called Emerald, Topaz, or Ruby -Ruin- with the only update being a half name change at 72 that I've seen from being synched down. The majority of these uses being what Ruin 2 allowed you to do. The same thing happens with your AoE. In addition to that, what further lends itself to being a Ruin spam job is that your basic Ruin and Tri-disaster are locked while you are in summon phases, serving absolutely no purpose other than to be greyed out.

Egi Assaults were a bit more than just that. With a max of 2 charges, even at 80, between I and II, they were not exactly spammable. And yes, they were different. Emerald Carbuncle/Garuda's 1 was an AoE attack and there 2 was a AoE that left a wind swirl on the ground for further DoT. Topaz/Titan's 1 was a shield, 2 an AoE. Ruby/Ifrit's were the simplest in terms of what they did; 1 a single target attack and 2 an AoE. And your Assaults and Enkindle, Aetherflow/Energy Drain and Fester/Painflare were all much easier, more convenient, and more able to be planned for weaving with your GCD's.

[WlyemR]

People, like myself, call it a Ruin spam job, because for the majority of your time leveling it is basically all you are doing. Gemshine itself, when it activates after using a summon, is called Emerald, Topaz, or Ruby -Ruin- with the only update being a half name change at 72 that I've seen from being synched down. The majority of these uses being what Ruin 2 allowed you to do. The same thing happens with your AoE. In addition to that, what further lends itself to being a Ruin spam job is that your basic Ruin and Tri-disaster are locked while you are in summon phases, serving absolutely no purpose other than to be greyed out.

Egi Assaults were a bit more than just that. With a max of 2 charges, even at 80, between I and II, they were not exactly spammable. And yes, they were different. Emerald Carbuncle/Garuda's 1 was an AoE attack and there 2 was a AoE that left a wind swirl on the ground for further DoT. Topaz/Titan's 1 was a shield, 2 an AoE. Ruby/Ifrit's were the simplest in terms of what they did; 1 a single target attack and 2 an AoE. And your Assaults and Enkindle, Aetherflow/Energy Drain and Fester/Painflare were all much easier, more convenient, and more able to be planned for weaving with your GCD's.

As far as the Assaults go, yes they were different, but it mostly came down to Garuda for AoE, Ifrit for single target, and Titan for "who actually uses Titan." As I said, you still have access to all of those skills, they are just split between Carbuncle, Rite, Catastrophe, and Astral Flow. I also said I do believe Astral Flow needs a low level equivalent to bring some of that uniqueness back at lower levels.

[rewd]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why SMN discussions always seem to attract either trolls or clueless clowns? It can't be a coincidence anymore.

[WlyemR]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why SMN discussions always seem to attract either trolls or clueless clowns? It can't be a coincidence anymore.

That's a good question.

[zcrash970]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why SMN discussions always seem to attract either trolls or clueless clowns? It can't be a coincidence anymore.

Because when you release a shallow job, you get shallow people apparently

[Anhra]

SMN current state does seem kind of halfway finished (kind of like MNK got changed in the middle of ShB) but the direction it goes, is at least better than how it was before. Old SMN was just a Dot Mage which used a pet only to fool people frim its "true" nature. At least, current SMN uses now summons as its Primary gimmick, but it does lack a couple more buttons for that purpose.

What SMN currently is missing, is just the finer polishing, a proper way to fix Physick and imo, shouldnt have any oGCD's at all. Summoning isnt a easy feat normally in Fantasy Games and require alot of focus from the Summoner, at least reflect that in its toolkit.

[rewd]

Old SMN was just a Dot Mage

It's been a while since you last played SMN, uh?