Final Fantasy 14 Players trying WOW?

[Melorie]

Let me apologize for my lack of clarity in my post. I realize that I failed to point out that I was responding to the "value your time" question and confusion regarding it. Basically, FFXIV values your time by giving you the freedom to play other games at any time while not feeling like you won't be able to raid when you return. This is currently not the case in WoW, where they give you a constant stream of necessary busywork that you must be able to complete all the time in order to be able to do the content that you want to do. So while both games do have a grind (as all MMO's do), in FFXIV you are not trapped in this grind treadmill. You can play other games if you want and not be behind when you return to do the newest patch content. In fact, Yoshi-P even encourages players to take breaks from the game because he understands that the player's time is valuable. WoW, on the other hand, gives you a bunch of tasks and chores that must be done - see all the videos on youtube on unlocking flying in Zerith Mortis, for example, and compare that to how easy it is to unlock flying in Endwalker. The whole flying thing is a simple example of valuing the players's time.

Oh, it wasn't really you're specifically talking about valuing time! But it is thrown a lot about people discussing MMOs in general, specially WoW. My point is, isn't these things - these grinds per se - part of playing the game, though? Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy how FFXIV chooses to do things, but at the same time, I don't blame someone that doesn't and prefer the feeling of progression that harder grinds give you. Getting the mount that flies in Guild Wars is a grind as well, but something I find enjoyable. I get that it's not everyone cup of tea though, but there's an audience for this kind of thing. I love grinding for things in Ragnarok Online or Monster Hunter - hours spent killing the same mobs over and over again to get a rare drop or a specific amount of xp. When I'm finished, after a long time, I actually feel pretty good about my progress, like I actually spent time on it. It's weirdly relaxing.

So, even though I enjoy FFXIV approach to things, I don't feel like EVERY game should follow it and that games that doesn't are not respecting players. Some games are meant to be a bigger time sink, and there's nothing wrong with that besides preference. If anything, these games value your time differently - the time you spent playing it actually gives you a bigger sense of progression, whereas in FFXIV you put very little time in order to achieve most things. I don't play and never played WoW, so I can't say if it is the type of grind I would enjoy, for example (I don't enjoy every grind), what I mean is that some people play MMOs because they offer time-sink and sense of progression.

[KitKatnip]

Oh, it wasn't really you're specifically talking about valuing time! But it is thrown a lot about people discussing MMOs in general, specially WoW. My point is, isn't these things - these grinds per se - part of playing the game, though? Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy how FFXIV chooses to do things, but at the same time, I don't blame someone that doesn't and prefer the feeling of progression that harder grinds give you. Getting the mount that flies in Guild Wars is a grind as well, but something I find enjoyable. I get that it's not everyone cup of tea though, but there's an audience for this kind of thing. I love grinding for things in Ragnarok Online or Monster Hunter - hours spent killing the same mobs over and over again to get a rare drop or a specific amount of xp. When I'm finished, after a long time, I actually feel pretty good about my progress, like I actually spent time on it. It's weirdly relaxing.

So, even though I enjoy FFXIV approach to things, I don't feel like EVERY game should follow it and that games that doesn't are not respecting players. Some games are meant to be a bigger time sink, and there's nothing wrong with that besides preference. If anything, these games value your time differently - the time you spent playing it actually gives you a bigger sense of progression, whereas in FFXIV you put very little time in order to achieve most things. I don't play and never played WoW, so I can't say if it is the type of grind I would enjoy, for example (I don't enjoy every grind), what I mean is that some people play MMOs because they offer time-sink and sense of progression.

I haven't tried to get them myself, but I understand Relic Weapons are quite the grind if you want to get them. There is some optional grindy content if you want to do it for the status symbol. The title from doing Palace of the Dead is another one (The Necromancer title for doing floors 1-200 solo).

[Melorie]

I haven't tried to get them myself, but I understand Relic Weapons are quite the grind if you want to get them. There is some optional grindy content if you want to do it for the status symbol. The title from doing Palace of the Dead is another one (The Necromancer title for doing floors 1-200 solo).

Personally I don't care much about status, I do like completing stuff though and feeling that I earned that. Like, building your island in Animal Crossing is a pain in the butt, but it also makes you proud for putting the hard work. Regarding the relic weapon, I haven't done much of them, except Zeta (ARR) and Anima (HW). I enjoyed Zeta, except the dungeon grind. I don't mind grinding open world mobs but dungeons, specially in FFXIV, it hurts the grinding flow I enjoy.

I did like the book's part though, it wasn't bad! Anima is mostly buying items with your poetic ad infinitum and spend one hour doing Alexander with peeps for light farm. I wasn't interested enough in SB/SHB relics in order to do them, so I can't speak for those, but if you do the relics steps at launch it's far from being a grind since you have the window between patches drop, I remember that in ShB there were steps that could be completed easily in a day and some friends praised Square for that.
Anyway, the relic weapon as far as I understand was actually seem as a casual content, so people could still get the ""best"" weapon at the end of the expansion if they worked a bit on it every patch.