Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[ItMe]

I like 6.0 SMN.
Perhaps, I even love it.
It's a lot more flexible, I feel like I'm contributing more (and not just because I can rez in a pinch without my own rotation going AWOL), and when I make a mistake/die I'm not punished with a real bad time for the rest of the pull.

I started FF14 as a SMN and coming back to it in 6.0 is very sweet and I'm enjoying maining it again.

[aveyond-dreams]

Welcome to the experience of most of the people that tried and then ultimately abandoned 5.X Summoner after realizing that there were better jobs to play as, and the experience I've had with the job with every expansion except this one. With 18 other options I'm sure you will find something you enjoy, as I did. I'll take a "simple" job that's true to its origins in the series as opposed to a "complex!" job that has fostered this sort of environment.

[tearagion]

who asked?

[Vegituh]

Welcome to the experience of most of the people that tried and then ultimately abandoned 5.X Summoner after realizing that there were better jobs to play as, and the experience I've had with the job with every expansion except this one. With 18 other options I'm sure you will find something you enjoy, as I did. I'll take a "simple" job that's true to its origins in the series as opposed to a "complex!" job that has fostered this sort of environment.

"That most people abandoned" Thats funny, because I remember seeing a decent amount of summoners throughout 4.x AND 5.x The class has never been under-represented from the metrics I could find. And I won't be surprised when a bunch of the bandwagoners that have picked the class up suddenly drop it to go back to their respective classes after the honeymoon phase has ended.

Also I find it funny that as soon as the class gets changed you suddenly act like its your class and the rest of us, the people who enjoyed the class we used to have, should just leave. You should of found a different class to play in the first place. I mean, as you said, there are 18 of them.


"True to its origins" Just going to ignore my earlier post huh. Not surprised, you don't seem to have a leg to stand on when it comes to that.

[aveyond-dreams]

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the 6.0 job changes. However I have yet to see a post on this thread break even 100 likes so where are all these fans of 5.X Summoner that do not seem to want to come in here to show their support? Perhaps you should consider spreading the word on twitter or reddit in order to help bolster your numbers.

Remember it's not me you have to get on your side but Yoship and the dev team themselves if you want that job back and to have new Summoner taken away from the multitudes of people who already fell in love with it.

[Vegituh]

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the 6.0 job changes. However I have yet to see a post on this thread break even 100 likes so where are all these fans of 5.X Summoner that do not seem to want to come in here to show their support? Perhaps you should consider spreading the word on twitter or reddit in order to help bolster your numbers.

Remember it's not me you have to get on your side but Yoship and the dev team themselves if you want that job back and to have new Summoner taken away from the multitudes of people who already fell in love with it.

Because the likes on a single thread on the english forums are definitely the definitive way to gauge interest or enjoyment of a class or mechanic. I've been playing this game since 2015 and I RARELY use these forums because they are not very good to be quite honest. I would assume they are using other means to discuss this game, such as discord/reddit/twitter as I usually do. The only reason I posted here today was because Laphicet spoke the truth. Besides, its common knowledge that the devs only look at the Japanese side of the community.

And no. The blame for the changes the class suffered are solely because of people like you. People who have spent the last 5 years whinging on and on about how Summoner is "clunky" or "doesn't feel like a real summoner". People who, most likely, didn't even play the class in the first place. People who "would of played the class" but got upset that it didn't cater specifically to them. "I would of played Summoner, if it played completely differently to how it currently plays."

It's the same thing that happened to Monk. "I like the idea of monk, but I don't like how it plays, please remove positionals and cater directly to me!" I like the idea of Dragoon But I think its one of the most boring things in this game to play, for me. So, instead of raining on everyone elses parade, I played something else. Took me a over a year to finally settle down on a class. That class was Summoner. Thanks alot

[Mysticunicycle]

If most of the abilities weren't a minute long CD, maybe it would feel better, but at the current moment, the job doesn't feel rewarding and devoid of dopamine hits. Maybe if you started with egis then work to bahamut, would feel good

Started off with bahamut pretty much instantly and then having your dps really tank, feels awful

That's.... every job in the game? Every job has an opener that bursts hard and then evens out..?

[AnotherPerson]

Imo, the current SMN is heading towards a good groundwork, but just needs a couple more things to do in between - not too much, but just a bit more. I'd say this isn't the best rework, but the rework gave a solid base to add more stuff in between for future expansions and patches while making the SMN feel better at lower levels since the base gameplay is the same outside of a couple of oGCDs and animations at higher levels.

The rework made ARR SMN have a gauge, which IMO, was pretty neat. It wasn't complex by far, but none of the jobs were by lv 50 (though, the Ruin naming convention got overused here). Still, it provided a good groundwork to build up the class. The transition of having Aethercharge to become Dreadwyrm Trance is good as it became satisfying to use Aethercharge's upgraded form. There was a good amount of button consolidation to keep things simple rather than cluttered. Button consolidation is a good thing since it reduces button pressing for the sake of having things to press. It frees up room for more skills and abilities to interact with each other outside its core gameplay loop.

The Aethercharge letting you choose what summon to use within the timespan is a very good change - it provided some depth to optimization in the encounter based on your toolkit. We get a lot of mobility from instant casts, but it makes a lack of oGCDs more noticeable, especially when you're pressing the same button over and over again (Healer mains also understand this struggle, except they have it worse since there's no animation or stance changes).

I'd say this would be a great time to make Aetherflow upgrade into something more interactive to SMN's toolkit rather than just become a fester / painflare spam. There's room for kit interactivity by making Astral Flow do something else outside of Demi summons too. Even if there was a 3 primal attune limit, perhaps we could enchant aetherflow or gemstone with an elemental attunement instead to unleash their ability temporarily.

It's not impossible to have a primary attunement and then upgrade the aetherflow gauge to have a secondary attunement (Ravana, Bismark, Shiva, Alexander).
It's also not impossible to just add multiple abilities after consuming aetherflow to gain a buff & access primal abilities as individual oGCDs with a unique take on each primal.
Ex: Shiva does a conal AoE and restores MP. Alexander consumes MP and does some AoE damage, resets your Energy Drain + Radiant Aegis cooldown abilities (or gives 1 charge if Energy Drain becomes a charge mechanic). Ravana does multi hit attack but only in close range (staring at you, SMN gapcloser).

Heck, it's possible they plan on adding the most oldest of primals into our kit somehow after Endwalker expansion and let us borrow a portion of their abilities.
Simply put, there's lots of ways for the current SMN to evolve imo. What they have looks like a simple core giving a lot of freedom for the devs to expand outwards.

[Kandraxx]

Actually SMN and RDM are two of the best designed dps jobs now in the game, no useless bloat, pretty visuals and strong class fantasy. If you want something overly cryptic to play to feel ‘rewarded’ for mastering it, then maybe try another genre or picking up martial arts in real life. Because I personally want to have fun and be entertained in a game like FF and not trying to figure out a 30 button rotation with 3 dot timers, 5 cool downs and a pet to micro manage.

Why do you think Square is not cracking down on addon users? Because they know most dps jobs are unplayable without them.

[VentVanitas]

Why do you think Square is not cracking down on addon users? Because they know most dps jobs are unplayable without them.

wat.

/10char