Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

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To call out a comically terrible explanation is not to take a side. "Your explanation for the problem is comically ridiculous" =/= "The problem does not exist."

Look at Kalaam's posts across this thread and mine and you will see valid complaints and no blind defense of the product as given. "The devs are sabotaging each other in some weird sort of pissing contest!" however, almost certainly isn't a valid, let alone relevant, complaint.

Can we happily let the Reddit rumors die and get back to the actual issues instead of treating this weird funk like some kind of warpaint?

[Shin96]

To call out a comically terrible explanation is not to take a side. "Your explanation for the problem is comically ridiculous" =/= "The problem does not exist."

Look at Kalaam's posts across this thread and mine and you will valid complaints and no defense of the product as given. "The devs are sabotaging each other in some weird sort of pissing contest!" however, almost certainly isn't a valid, let alone relevant, complaint.

Can we happily let the Reddit rumors die and get back to the actual issues instead of treating this weird funk like some kind of warpaint?

Who are you then to disprove it? You call it ridiculous yet you offer no substantial evidence. Only good faith, which alas was crushed for 2 expansions. We are running out of good faith, I believe.

Calling a theory most likely false and hateful because it directs itself to the source of our discontent (i.e. the developers are completly ignoring DRK) is incorrect. It's criticism directed at the roots. It may be personal in nature but it still reserves its judgement towards the creators.

There's not more I can add to this. Either hold them accountable or spend the rest of your lives complaining in an echo chamber. Perhaps enhanced Unleash and enhanced Unmend 2 will change your mind? One can only hope.

[Shurrikhan]

While I'm definitely not in the camp that thinks there's some great DRK crisis when it comes to a self-heal, I do have to recognize that they are definitely missing a non-rotational heal that isn't coupled to their standard mitigation suite, and I could get behind something like this to give them a reasonable on-demand health bump in a way that doesn't warrant nerfing any of their existing skills to make room for incoming HP.

This seems reasonable. I'd slightly prefer going more the Paladin / StB DRK route in making AD a more flexible, rather than Equilibrium-like, self-heal, and don't much see the need to move AD over to that effect (especially when Salted Earth could easily fill that role already if we felt it was truly necessary), but I wouldn't hate that direction, either.

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Separately:

Who are you then to disprove it?

Which generally holds the burden of proof, the simpler, more common explanation, or the likes of "no, it's all a conspiracy!" per the above rumor?

Calling a theory most likely false and hateful because it directs itself to the source of our discontent (i.e. the developers are completly ignoring DRK) is incorrect. It's criticism directed at the roots.

I call it most likely false because it's a needlessly convoluted explanation and because design issues resulting from intentional self-sabotage certainly seem less likely than design issues stemming from any other, more typical reason.

I've not called it hateful; you're again conflating or strawmanning.

Finally, why would you critique "the roots" through an explanation that you admit is irrelevant to the product, is unlikely (yes, until such time as you can prove that more problematic designs are consequent to vendettas than not, it is unlikely), and you have no actual knowledge of, rather than critiquing the actual product you are familiar with? That's like getting a bad steak and then yelling at the cook for having an affair (since who is anyone to say that's the less likely explanation in the wake of your righteous indignation) when the steak is right there and fully worth critique in and of itself. You don't need the random, "at the roots" tinfoil theories to give a valid complaint. To speak on about something you admit is irrelevant and you do not know the validity of is exactly how render your complaint invalid.

There's not more I can add to this. Either hold them accountable or spend the rest of your lives complaining in an echo chamber.

How about, again, looking at the product and making concrete suggestions instead of drowning them out by yelling pure frustration into walls as if feelings, alone, would drive results?

Perhaps enhanced Unleash and enhanced Unmend 2 will change your mind?

Right, because my critiques there were purely ironic? Enough strawmen.

[Shin96]

Which generally holds the burden of proof, the simpler, more common explanation, or the likes of "no, it's all a conspiracy!" per the above rumor?


I call it most likely false because it's a needlessly convoluted explanation and because design issues resulting from intentional self-sabotage certainly seem less likely than design issues stemming from any other, more typical reason.

I've not called it hateful; you're again conflating or strawmanning.

Finally, why would you critique "the roots" through an explanation that you admit is irrelevant to the product, is unlikely (yes, until such time as you can prove that more problematic designs are consequent to vendettas than not, it is unlikely), and you have no actual knowledge of, rather than critiquing the actual product you are familiar with? That's like getting a bad steak and then yelling at the cook for having an affair (since who is anyone to say that's the less likely explanation in the wake of your righteous indignation) when the steak is right there and fully worth critique in and of itself. You don't need the random, "at the roots" tinfoil theories to give a valid complaint. To speak on about something you admit is irrelevant and you do not know the validity of is exactly how render your complaint invalid.


How about, again, looking at the product and making concrete suggestions instead of drowning them out by yelling pure frustration into walls as if feelings, alone, would drive results?


Right, because my critiques there were purely ironic? Enough strawmen. [/HB]

Not going to read this anyway. To simplify my point:

Developers don't care. We give them feedback. Good.

Next expansion, DRK is severely lacking in self-sustain options and defense. They don't care. Oh yes, Living Dead still is absolute shite despite years of criticism from loyal fans.

Someone makes a theory which sounds ridiculous but it reveals the developers don't care. My initial assumption based on their absolute lack of actions taken for years.

Theory involves the developers in a way where it explains why they haven't taken any action. Sounds like a solid explanation to me. They still don't care.

In the end you look like someone in absolute denial, same with that other guy I quoted. You cannot even conceptualize the idea that perhaps these developers are complete hacks that ignore us for no good reason. DRK in 6.0 recevied no mentionable changes despite an increase in DPS. It's the equivalent of leaving construction work on hold for another 2 years.

What you think is irrelevant. For all your screeching of calling things conspiracies and this smug attitude, in the end you're just another customer with nothing to say. DRK will still be shit, nothing will change, and people still believe our words and feedback is taken seriously. Despite years of players making threads voicing their opinions in the most respectable attitude; nothing has changed. The hubris from these developers is astounding yet frustrating.

[Kalaam]

This just proves that dark knight is poorly designed and doesn't get attention. Which nobody is denying.
This doesn't mean that every dev working on the jobs decided to sabotage that specific job because they didn't like a previous colleague. And that the game's director either doesn't know about it, or is ok with it.

[Shin96]

This just proves that dark knight is poorly designed and doesn't get attention. Which nobody is denying.
This doesn't mean that every dev working on the jobs decided to sabotage that specific job because they didn't like a previous colleague. And that the game's director either doesn't know about it, or is ok with it.

But why is it not getting any attention? Sabotage is the logical conclusion when you withdraw attention and resources from a job. If their priority lied by giving DRK its essentials we wouldn't have this mess of a job now.

I personally believe it's pure mallace, because Salt and Darkness and Enhanced Unmend sounds like they're mocking us.

[Kalaam]

I think it's better if we just ignore you. Stay in your own little world where you are the only smart kid and everyone else but you is stupid.

We honestly shouldn't have kept this going for so long.
Remeber there is a blocking function so we don't have to do this again.

[ThorneDynasty]

Who are you then to disprove it?

Yeah this is not how logic works. You can't come up with any hearsay nonsense and place the burden of proof on everyone else.

[Shin96]

Yeah this is not how logic works. You can't come up with any hearsay nonsense and place the burden of proof on everyone else.

I literally provided proof above. They gave every other tank every bit of love except DRK. For me, this simply is sabotaging their work. The end result is they have no interest in giving this job the attention it needs.

You guys are getting upset because your conception of the developers is shaking right now. Good. Maybe next time, don't give good faith to a company that repeatedly screws you over with little interest in discourse.

[ThorneDynasty]

I literally provided proof above. They gave every other tank every bit of love except DRK. For me, this simply is sabotaging their work. The end result is they have no interest in giving this job the attention it needs.

You guys are getting upset because your conception of the developers is shaking right now. Good. Maybe next time, don't give good faith to a company that repeatedly screws you over with little interest in discourse.

That's not proof, that's quite literally a leap of logic. A hypothetical explanation for the problem doesn't prove the explanation is correct.