Dark Knight Megathread

[Claire_Pendragon]

DRK needs a significantly bigger pool of HP as a buffer for using HP as part of your damage mechanics, between 25-75% more than other tanks, either in form of a low CD ability or passively.

While I dont think a "direct" HP requirement on skills is the best way to do things (exceptions being things like superbolide) in the example you gave, theres other ways to do it. such as having a buff that triggers when you sacrifice HP, which increases heals received for a bit. Another is to have a "pool" of.. oh, idk... lets say "Blood" that you can also use in place of HP, if you saved up enough. etc (you already covered HP drains/selfheals).
but im of the opinion HP should only be consumed if its towards defensive skills that easily out weight the cost of HP. (besides superbolide, TBN could cost 5% of current HP, grants 25% shield. basic healer regen probably would top u off anyways, if u absolutely needed that 5% hp to survive something even with TBN up.)

"Wasted HoTs / heals" are by nature wasted and not something to base on, but YMMV.

side note: With the current designs/options in game, id say this statement is more than reasonable, but with a little imagination, id say you could base an entire class on "wasted regens" (which i have a tank class dedicated for this in my own game)

Again, I am all in for using HP as a resource, but spending it for survival is either really good (Superbolide) or not worth it, depending on the conversion.

ooc, what would be the point in making it "not worth it"? superbolide is an example of using it perfectly.

[ItMe]

side note: With the current designs/options in game, id say this statement is more than reasonable, but with a little imagination, id say you could base an entire class on "wasted regens" (which i have a tank class dedicated for this in my own game)

That sounds interesting.
What is your game called and how can I try it out?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

ooc, what would be the point in making it "not worth it"? superbolide is an example of using it perfectly.

Bolide being a high CD invuln, using all your HP except 1 is justified because it essentially offers limitless eHP through damage nullification within the duration, justifying the CD and HP cost.

Your TBN example is a soft nerf to current values which is more relevant to auto attacks in final savage floors and ultimates, but I could handwave through "barely" since luckily 5% isnt too much and is likely covered by Souleater.

However, take into account that WAR has a similar ability in Thrill of Battle (+20% maxHP and 20%HP shield are of equal value numerically but thrill also boosts heal effects) and has an arguably superior short CD ability in Nascent Flash and soon also Bloodwhetting, which is where it could get difficult regarding "why would I play DRK if I could play WAR instead".

Conversion of HP is just as important as asking if another tank will do this exact task with equal or greater benefit / equal or lesser hassle for the group. It can be done, but the keyword is " finetuning".

[Danelo]

Why is this so often echoed? A tank is the ONE role on which HP sacrifices actually MAKE sense, since it's the one role that already, until Shadowbringers, made regular use of its eHP as a resource.

And even following Shadowbringers, tanks still make use of eHP as a resource, just in the sense of timed expenditure rather than comparative spending (against offensive opportunities).

Consider a DPS using it instead. Its restrictions would instead be purely a matter of avoiding its use before raid AoEs while essentially just offering a healer attention burden for in order to shift aDPS from healers to that damage-dealer, all without having higher rDPS for the party as a whole (else the job would be imbalanced). No, the only role that should have HP-spending mechanics are those that already have eHP mechanics -- essentially just allowing the job to bank resource via HP spending during damage lulls to then further fortify itself during damage spikes, an altogether very tank-themed mechanic.

I did say “prob”ably.

As a tank hp is being used as a resource already while your being hit. Unless you’d want to tie it to LD in some way it seems it would be a difficult implementation.

Again, the devil is in the details, and it could be cool if they poor the time into it but considering they can’t seem to get things right where they have more wiggle room in not going to hold my breath.

[Beddict]

Yeah, the interplay between MP and Blood was more interesting, and where it really shined was in Dungeons. Do a big pull, toss down Salted Earth to generate Blood and use Blood Price to generate MP, use TBN to shield, it pops to give 50 Blood, use Delirium to increase the duration of Blood Price, Dark Arts Abyssal Drain spam for healing, Quietus using the Blood generated from Salted Earth, TBN, Quietus, more DA-AD spam, just keep churning out MP spenders and Quietus. Having your resources work together felt more engaging to me. Now, MP doesn't affect Blood, Blood doesn't affect MP, and Darkside is completely worthless since if it ever falls off you may as well set your Job Crystal on fire.

[shao32]

This is just perfection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6c...annel=LucyPyre

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah that video just encapsulates DRK.

Have some sad music as an outro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1o4O2SfQ5g

RIP. 2015-2021.

[MagiusNecros]

Just make TBN free or let TBN have no CD and just let it cost MP. But that still doesn't fix DRK's problems of self sustain with Souleater and Abyssal being underwhelming heals. Or Living Dead. Or Blood Weapon being shit. Or Living Shadow costing Blood on a 2 minute CD and being in the fucking way as a glorified DoT. Or Salted Earth being made objectively worse. Or Shadowbringer being a buffed Dark Passenger.

And bring back Blood Price. If the issue is mah MP mah dps then give the DRK ways to restore MP. Even a skill that just gives you MP like BLM manafont would be preferable.

Really getting tired of them giving you a skill that's on a long CD but also costs a resource. Jeez Louise.

This class needs a whole rework and at some point they need to fix or change their invuln, give some resource return, have skills that synergize with each other meaning MP and Blackblood interact, and they need to NUKE Delirium from orbit. Being a shit Warrior as a class design is poor class design IMO.

Everything about it is incredibly DULL.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

^ minus.the TBN part, all my issues with it as well.

[MagiusNecros]

^ minus.the TBN part, all my issues with it as well.

Well you know honestly I don't really like TBN on the metric that DRK's mitigation is completely built around it and it really fucking sucks once the novelty wears off. I really like the concept of having a frequent damage shield but on the other hand you really have nothing else to fall back on. Like the skill is good but it's also garbage at the same time. Like you have a truckload of mitigation problems for a whole 69 levels. It's just damn awful.

Being gutted each expansion is going to make players wonder what DRK was like that made each xpac fun or manageable when the way you played the class was different in each one.