Dark Knight Megathread

[RyuDragnier]

I used to play MCH because it was MCH, not because it was Edgar. And if they go full on Cloud DRK..., well I'm glad people would want to play Cloud but I want to play as a Job, not a Character.

So you play a job for how it looks, not how it feels?

[Shurrikhan]

So you play a job for how it looks, not how it feels?

How does "I play the job for itself, not just because there was a popular past franchise character related to it" = "I care only about appearance"?

[MerlinCross]

So you play a job for how it looks, not how it feels?

How does "I play the job for itself, not just because there was a popular past franchise character related to it" = "I care only about appearance"?

No no, he has a point given my rather public stance on a job should feel fun to play first and effective second. Lemme try to expand on it without taking too much away from the thread focus.

DRK to me has problems. It’s slower, feels weaker, and just too stiff to me now. Even after an expansion, to me it still has these problems to the point I can’t be bothered to level it. If the next expansion just adds in say Braver and Omnislash from Cloud but basically changes nothing else, it’s still a dead job to me. And even if that’s all they did was just add those two in, I know there’d be people just praising the design choice cause oh look “It’s Cloud the guy I know!” and just ignore any problems cause oh look shiny thing.

To me a job needs to be fun, look/feel impactful and not dead weight. The issue I have with adding in abilities and attacks more closely tied to a character than job is that it may lead to them just getting away with worse or poorer design choices because hey we got the thing that the famous person did!

Edgar wasn’t an impact on me trying MCH. The focus on Edgar now, and how his signature attacks haven’t fixed or made the job worse made me drop the job because doing the funny chainsaw move isn’t enough to carry that job for me. And I mean have you seen people say they want melee chainsaw or a combo like RDM has?

And I’d hate to see the same thing happen to DRK. Design choices based around making it more like Cloud, or heck more like Cecil(I have no idea how thy do that though). To me the jobs have taken some cues or nods from their predecessors but are different enough to stand on their own without being a straight copy. Familiar enough without being way too close to the same thing.

Even if this doesn’t make sense and I’m just yelling at clouds here(HA) I figured I needed to at least try to expand my thought here.

[BlackLion3173]

I don't know if this was already tossed out, but I think it would be interesting if they changed TBN to be 25 seconds and not cost mana, as well as giving us a way to lower the cooldown, like casting Bloodspiller/Quietus or something. I don't know if this is feasible, but I feel that if they want TBN to be the centerpiece for a DRK identity, they could start with that. Warrior's Infuriate CD is lowered the more you toss out Fel Cleaves and Primal Rend, so why not have DRK go in the opposite direction? I also would like to see Dark Arts augment our other abilities, like giving Quietus a bleed effect(swinging a huge sword around should cause some serious damage) or giving Bloodspiller a potent healing effect.

[AziraSyuren]

I actually think you might be on to something there. TBN could be a unique cooldown with its duration lowered by casting edge or flood of shadow, effectively reversing how it functions now. Or maybe it could be a cooldown that grows stronger the more you use those buttons. The natural offense of the job feeding into its defense instead of the other way around could end up with something really fun to play around with.

It’d be a bubble you put on someone, larger the more you’ve fed into it, and when it pops, it gives the party a seriously strong heal.

I dunno though. Just throwing ideas out of my half-asleep ambien addled brain.

[Recon1o6]

I think what merlin is trying to say is that the job should be fun regardless of what its animations and names are and right now dark is not.

Mch has edgar references but that doenst make it fun or any less ping reliant


While aesthetics do make up a part of job identity and enjoyment (eg whm feels rubbish because its lost its impactful stone and wind spells) they are ultimately not the contributing factor.

Jobs should be fun even if you turn off your player effects.

[MerlinCross]

I think what merlin is trying to say is that the job should be fun regardless of what its animations and names are and right now dark is not.

Mch has edgar references but that doenst make it fun or any less ping reliant


While aesthetics do make up a part of job identity and enjoyment (eg whm feels rubbish because its lost its impactful stone and wind spells) they are ultimately not the contributing factor.

Jobs should be fun even if you turn off your player effects.

There’s some room but that’s kinda the core thing yeah.

Put a different way, some attacks and jobs feel more designed to look good at a press release or job action vid, but repeated play said job, that novelty can die real fast.

I am looking at you, Fray.

[Colt47]

I mean, DRK is sort of like taking dragoon and adding tanking skills on it, then making the user glance at the MP bar to make sure they don't over extend. if they got rid of delirium and the MP usage, then changed blood weapon to make attacks drain hp from the enemy, DRK would likely be a lot more playable.

[Terhix]

I mean, DRK is sort of like taking dragoon and adding tanking skills on it, then making the user glance at the MP bar to make sure they don't over extend. if they got rid of delirium and the MP usage, then changed blood weapon to make attacks drain hp from the enemy, DRK would likely be a lot more playable.

People really love the idea of slapping hp drain on BW to make it fit the name, but that's a horrible mechanic unless you also remove the MP / Blood gain from it. Otherwise it becomes a DPS ability that's tied to survival, which means you either use it on cooldown for DPS and might not have it when you need it for survival, or you save it for survival and your dps suffers.

[RyuDragnier]

People really love the idea of slapping hp drain on BW to make it fit the name, but that's a horrible mechanic unless you also remove the MP / Blood gain from it. Otherwise it becomes a DPS ability that's tied to survival, which means you either use it on cooldown for DPS and might not have it when you need it for survival, or you save it for survival and your dps suffers.

They could always make it sustain, then create (more like bring back) Blood Price, which they'd give the current Blood Weapon MP/Blood gain to.