Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[MaelleRiou]

Then it would be best to wait patiently for 7.0's dot caster to come. We who enjoy new summoner had to wait 8 years, surely 2 is nothing for a job so dearly beloved by its fans.

Do you just have stock comments you write in every thread that have absolutely nothing to do with what people are discussing or something?

[Anvaire]

I've mained summoner since ARR Beta. I say this not to mean my view is any more or less valdid, just to show my long term commitment to the role.

In terms of the new summoner I think overall the design is the right approach. It allows the job fantasy to shine and appeals to a larger pool of people. But it comes at a steep price. I think those who played summoner for its dots, for its complexity are never going to like this rework. It is about as far removed from what it was it.

Historically Summoner has always faced an identity crisis. It was caught between two camps of players Those who wanted a complex dot class, and those who wanted it to resolve more around the summons and be a "true" summoner. For me, i've played it as i like the aesthetic and fantasy of summoning be they evoked simalcrums of XIV's Summoner or old School summons. Over time the push and pull between these two camps has gone both ways, but with shadowbringers, it vered very far to the resolve around Summons camp and EW saw that idelogy become the final itendity of the class. Summoner for a long time needed this. It was a hodgepodge mess of multiple systems that were fine on their own but monstrous when baked together.

I honestly think this design of summoner is potentially really good. But I think it does need a little bit of work and some minor adjustments to make it less repetitive. I think the intent is that the complexity lies not in the rotation, but in bending the rotation to the fights and optimising based on the primals and demis currently in use. The issue is that because the lionshare of casts are instant, the choices are not on "when can i/ do i need to move" but rather "when can i stand still" which is a decision that affects a 2-3gcd window every minute - fundementally its an issue of instant cast overload coupled with a simple rotation. Because 90% of the time we can move freely, there is little thought required in when we need to optimise. Ifrit is the only thing we need to really think about and then we have Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Smash for shimmying around the boss and Ruin 4 for moving away when needed. Its not enough to bring any real complexity.

The levelling experience suffers significantly because most spell additions don't actually equate to new buttons, they are just upgrades to existing ones and the "busyness" of trying to fit the primal abilities into the jewel rotation within the demi cooldown is only really felt at level 86. Meaning the class feels very monotomous to play while levelling. Furthermore a lot of those Upgrades are lost upon sync, which isn't unusual persay but because the rotation is unchanged it feels doubly bad to play at lower levels because you are still playing the same buttons.

All of these problems I think can and will be fixable by the devs either in this expansion or the next because that is one thing this rework does grant. A very set base for them to expand on in future expansions. In terms of adjustments to the current summoner though, i think some changes to how each summon rotation works would be good. though all are a bit different i actully think the Demis are where thy need to look at making the changes. Adding some more OGCD's would also help given the number of instants at our disposal.

Overall though I think the class is in a good position design wise, just needs some adjustments to make it more fun to play. This does come with a reality people need to face. If they want old summoner, im afraid that ship has sunk and gone. It might be time to consider other jobs within XIV because if its the complexity of 5.0 and before you look for, this design of summoner is not going to provide it.

[Moomba33]

I dislike the current version of summoner a lot. It plays like a level 60 class with not nearly enough to do.

I can agree that it fits the class fantasy of summoning more than the old dot mage. I can only hope that we get a new job someday that plays like old smn.

[Rolder50]

Do you just have stock comments you write in every thread that have absolutely nothing to do with what people are discussing or something?

Didn't you know? Flavor is more important then being fun to play, even when you can have both.

[Sunako]

I'm more along the lines of 4.0 > 5.0 > 2.0 > 3.0 > 6.0

I do think 5.0 did add some good things like defined roles for Garuda and Ifrit, but overall the rotation and design was a step back from 4.0. 3.0 I always held firm to the belief that players wanted to summon Bahamut, not Bahamut's Breath.

I personally liked Aetherflow system the most about summoner and they ruined it during 5.0 , that's why I hated 5.0 changes.

[CKNovel]

Didn't you know? Flavor is more important then being fun to play, even when you can have both.

I don't see any obvious sign of sarcasms.
But flavor over fun... In a video game? Reminds me of FF XII and FF XIII.

[DES_VII]

To each their own. chicken nuggets auto attacks and dots were not summoner to me. I'm sure people like that class archtype but it shouldn't of been labeled summoner, its a bit of false advertising.
I like the current summoner but do agree it needs work to make it a bit more interesting. Its usable now and doesn't wiff half its abilities and actually summons.

Same I love the new summoner compared to what it once was. Only thing I want is just slight potency buffs. Just a bit more dmg Doesn't have to go over RDM, even though they can instant rez 3 ppl, But just a bit of help to line it up. I love the class/job now feels like a summoner.

[Dyvid]

I personally liked Aetherflow system the most about summoner and they ruined it during 5.0 , that's why I hated 5.0 changes.

Yea, they made Aetherflow worthless in 5.0/6.0

[Riusvell]

"The most faithful rendition of Summoner" is such a hollow argument, you're telling me that all the lore of past games matter nothing for the job identity?

The summons were our companions who we've fought to gain their respect to be summoned in the first place, or even prayed to in the case of one of the games that people love to call back to. Even in that particular game we didn't just summon them as a spell, we commanded them to attack. They fought with us. We have the horn to communicate with them yet here we are just throwing them out like a Black Mage flings their spells, and you're telling me that "this is faithful to the older FF's". If you actually cared a smidge about the job's identity, none of these claims would even be made!

"But the older Summoners didn't have DoTs!"
Rydia learns Poison. That is a DoT, a status ailment in past Final Fantasies.

"But X-"
If you're going to bring up Yuna, she can also learn poison. I legitimately do not understand the argument of not fitting the job identity or anything if older characters that have been hailed as the holy grail of summoning do nothing like you claim them to do. They still had to gain the respect, they still saw them as allies and they still interacted with them outside of the battle gameplay we saw. Even in FF6 it is proven they're sentient beings. Yet the gameplay uses them as a spell, which is very likely due to engine limitations. But just because it is older gameplay, doesn't mean we have to face this in XIV. X, XII and XIII actually had us interact with the summons and that's something I love as someone who legitimately adores the job in the franchise.

To have it be turned into a hollow shadow while my Carbuncle is spacing out, is just a disrespect to everything that came before it.

Seriously, this disgrace feels NOTHING like a Summoner.

[aveyond-dreams]

Thank you for sharing your opinion. However that doesn’t change the fact that nearly all summon magic in the oldest FFs work identically to group-casted black magic direct damage spells.

I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had to explain to people just because Rydia had Bio that it’s not enough to spin a whole identity around poison magic, especially when there’s cooler things a Summoner should be doing.

What should the main focus of the job “Summoner” be? Summon magic. That’s literally it. Is it a summon attack? Is it a spell themed after a summon? Then it’s all good. If you weren't casting summons with Rydia, chances are you were casting elemental magic if not Flare.

If you want poison magic? Bleeding the enemy over time? Congrats, what you want is Warlock or Time mage. You’re not gonna be casting Bio when you’ve learned Bahamut. Come on now.

I’d personally love it if we could directly command our spells from the summon itself while it stays out, but after so many attempts and failing to figure out the pet system I’d rather go with the least glitchy option, which is this one. In any case the general consensus is that this is in fact that this is about as close to a real Summoner as we’ve ever gotten.

Talk about dots really should have stayed in 2021 and isn't productive discussion when it comes to the future of the job. We already tried that here and it didn't work out in the end. "Spreading dots with bane was so cool!" and cleaving off massive chunks of HP at the start of a pull with Bahamut is infinitely more satisfying.