Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[Atamis]

To each their own. chicken nuggets auto attacks and dots were not summoner to me. I'm sure people like that class archtype but it shouldn't of been labeled summoner, its a bit of false advertising.
I like the current summoner but do agree it needs work to make it a bit more interesting. Its usable now and doesn't wiff half its abilities and actually summons.

[DES_VII]

To each their own. chicken nuggets auto attacks and dots were not summoner to me. I'm sure people like that class archtype but it shouldn't of been labeled summoner, its a bit of false advertising.
I like the current summoner but do agree it needs work to make it a bit more interesting. Its usable now and doesn't wiff half its abilities and actually summons.

Same I love the new summoner compared to what it once was. Only thing I want is just slight potency buffs. Just a bit more dmg Doesn't have to go over RDM, even though they can instant rez 3 ppl, But just a bit of help to line it up. I love the class/job now feels like a summoner.

[Deceptus]

To each their own. chicken nuggets auto attacks and dots were not summoner to me. I'm sure people like that class archtype but it shouldn't of been labeled summoner, its a bit of false advertising.
I like the current summoner but do agree it needs work to make it a bit more interesting. Its usable now and doesn't wiff half its abilities and actually summons.

Seriously. If your idea of a Summoner was summoning something ONCE and letting it auto attack I feel pity for you.

Current summoner FEELS like an actual summoner for better or for worse.

[MellowMink]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

The only notable thing I would like changed off the top of my head right now is for the trait Elemental Mastery to be unlocked way before level 86; the spells and abilities it introduces add much more complexity and order considerations that I feel should be there for more than just the latest content. Until you’re doing level 86 or higher content, Ruby attack spells feel the most inconvenient due to the really long cast times, but adding two more spell types including a gap-closer makes me less reluctant to like it. Titan also gets an oGCD attack spell, and Garuda gets Shadow Flare. These are all hugely significant things that make you have to think harder about which elemental primal to summon in what order, so I feel like that should be swapped with some other earlier-level trait.

[Rolder50]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

The only notable thing I would like changed off the top of my head right now is for the trait Elemental Mastery to be unlocked way before level 86; the spells and abilities it introduces add much more complexity and order considerations that I feel should be there for more than just the latest content. Until you’re doing level 86 or higher content, Ruby attack spells feel the most inconvenient due to the really long cast times, but adding two more spell types including a gap-closer makes me less reluctant to like it. Titan also gets an oGCD attack spell, and Garuda gets Shadow Flare. These are all hugely significant things that make you have to think harder about which elemental primal to summon in what order, so I feel like that should be swapped with some other earlier-level trait.

And what variety is there in the new rotation, exactly? The large majority of your rotation is simply "An instant cast spell that does X damage" with precious little to actually weave between those instant casts. Also, there's a guy on youtube whose getting good results my macroing the entire rotation to a single button, which should serve to show just how simple it's become.

[dinnertime]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

[Rika007]

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

Eh how something feels is in the eye of the beholder. To me the variations in how said ruin spam works feels enough different to me to make it not feel like old school ruin spam. It does feel varied even if it is just simply spamming the same button over and over again. That's an eye of the beholder thing though so if it takes with you is completely dependent on your experience.

[rewd]

Eh how something feels is in the eye of the beholder. To me the variations in how said ruin spam works feels enough different to me to make it not feel like old school ruin spam. It does feel varied even if it is just simply spamming the same button over and over again. That's an eye of the beholder thing though so if it takes with you is completely dependent on your experience.

Which is why we have been saying that if you value animations and particle effects over gameplay, the SMN rework is very likely to be appealing to you. People that care about how a job plays mechanically are not going to be fooled by a bunch of different colours.

[Rika007]

Which is why we have been saying that if you value animations and particle effects over gameplay, the SMN rework is very likely to be appealing to you. People that care about how a job plays mechanically are not going to be fooled by a bunch of different colours.

Hi. I'm a savage raider and someone who exclusively plays it in a raid setting and has been playing the job and all of its iterations since 2.0. I'm not someone who is just taken in by flashy aesthetics only. A job that flows well mechanically is very important to me. And I still like this new Summoner. Do I have issues with it? Yes. Do I wish it was a bit more complex? Yes.

Do I also think that it is a massive step up over the janky abomination that was Shadowbringers Summoner? Yes. Do I think it's a step up over the boring snore that was ARR Summoner? Yes. Heavensward is a push. Stormblood is the only iteration of the job that I will call just overall better in everyway of this new Endwalker summoner. Outside of that and the few complaints I have about the job I have very much enjoyed my time with it so far. I have loved progging the current savage tier on it.

The issue that y'all have is that you think only casuals like this new Summoner and people taken in by fancy lights. That is false and the copium you huff just to make yourself feel better. There are plenty of upper level players who do enjoy this version of Summoner.

[rewd]

Hi. I'm a savage raider and someone who exclusively plays it in a raid setting and has been playing the job and all of its iterations since 2.0. I'm not someone who is just taken in by flashy aesthetics only. A job that flows well mechanically is very important to me. And I still like this new Summoner. Do I have issues with it? Yes. Do I wish it was a bit more complex? Yes.

Do I also think that it is a massive step up over the janky abomination that was Shadowbringers Summoner? Yes. Do I think it's a step up over the boring snore that was ARR Summoner? Yes. Heavensward is a push. Stormblood is the only iteration of the job that I will call just overall better in everyway of this new Endwalker summoner. Outside of that and the few complaints I have about the job I have very much enjoyed my time with it so far. I have loved progging the current savage tier on it.

The issue that y'all have is that you think only casuals like this new Summoner and people taken in by fancy lights. That is false and the copium you huff just to make yourself feel better. There are plenty of upper level players who do enjoy this version of Summoner.

Nice to meet you, no one cares in this discussion.

The moment you mention "feel" and admit that you are indeed doing the same thing but that it only feels different, then you are agreeing and not confuting what was being said.

The problem "we all" have is with people like you that think they can come here, ignore all the countless posts that express in a concise, yet effective way what the problems of new SMN are and think they can get away with trying to make us look like we are just a bunch of "hurr durr dirty casuals" (even though, strangely enough, no one actually mentioned them).

Another big problem is that a lot of the criticism (if not most of it) about old SMN stems from ignorance or lies (the 2m "opener", "DoT mage" etc.). This entire discussion originated from "old SMN spammed Ruin III, new we have a lot of variety!".

I'm glad you raid, I wish you could work on your reading comprehension, though.