Parsing unfair but okay?

[Menriq]

Yes because in effect they both adhere to the the same purpose in that they're calculating output damage. The main distinction between is that one directly reads that data from the game, and with Excel you're just copying and pasting the data from the chat log into Excel and then running macros.

Unless we've suddenly come upon a case scenario where Discord is more than just a text/voice chat application that directly reads from the game then it will remain a logical fallacy.

So then, if ACT didn't read memory, but I manually copied and pasted the same information, you would be ok with parse runs?

[Kaurhz]

So then, if ACT didn't read memory, but I manually copied and pasted the same information, you would be ok with parse runs?

That's the whole point of it, yes. Unless someone openly admits to having used ACT then you really can't make the distinction of whether someone is actually using it or just Excel, and at that point you turn the discussion of it into more something that is philosophical/fundamental such as manually calculating each damage entry by a given party member and then diving that total by the length of the fight, and then you take it a step further with Excel. Just multiple ways of parsing the combat data.

I don't know how you managed to glean that I have a distaste for it. To be frank I don't care if you parse in a parse run, nor do I care if you do it in run whereby enrage is actually a thing. Just don't try and reach for the stars with an argument about discord constituting as a third party tool that could be a bannable offense.

[Menriq]

That's the whole point of it, yes. Unless someone openly admits to having used ACT then you really can't make the distinction of whether someone is actually using it or just Excel, and at that point you turn the discussion of it into more something that is philosophical/fundamental such as manually calculating each damage entry by a given party member and then diving that total by the length of the fight, and then you take it a step further with Excel. Just multiple ways of parsing the combat data.

I don't know how you managed to glean that I have a distaste for it. I don't care, what I do care about is people trying to reach incredibly hard to make a point. Discord isn't even remotely comparable.

I'm not thinking one way or the other. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. They literally say "No third party tools". It's not hard to objectively say those who are using voice comms have an advantage over those who aren't. They don't say "No third party tools, but Discord is ok". What I fail to understand is, by your admission, if ACT and Excel are doing the same thing, why would you have an issue with HOW the data is collected, if the data and the result are the same?

[Kaurhz]

I'm not thinking one way or the other. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. They literally say "No third party tools". It's not hard to objectively say those who are using voice comms have an advantage over those who aren't. They don't say "No third party tools, but Discord is ok". What I fail to understand is, by your admission, if ACT and Excel are doing the same thing, why would you have an issue with HOW the data is collected, if the data and the result are the same?

Yes and this is stretching the definition of a third-party tool to the absolute maximum wherein it becomes logical fallacy. Discord facilitates communication. The fights in this game at anything beyond normal mode aren't really designed around the idea that you're using a party chat to communicate your ideas. A little critical thinking goes a long way as to tell you why these aren't even remotely comparable.

By their own admission:
- Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

The 'how' of how that data is collected and analysed is what determines if it violates the terms of service or not. They aren't doing it on the basis of end-result but rather method. Given that neither discord, nor Excel, nor a physical calculator violate either of the following then it's really a no brainer. As they've stated they frankly don't care if you do or don't. Neither do I. They'll be punishing people for bad behaviour long before they even bother punishing you for the use of ACT. They also went on to state that if this ever changed then you accept the personal responsibility of getting sanctioned due to it.

[Saraide]

Yes and this is stretching the definition of a third-party tool to the absolute maximum wherein it becomes logical fallacy. Discord facilitates communication. The fights in this game at anything beyond normal mode aren't really designed around the idea that you're using a party chat to communicate your ideas. A little critical thinking goes a long way as to tell you why these aren't even remotely comparable.

By their own admission:
- Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

The 'how' of how that data is collected and analysed is what determines if it violates the terms of service or not. They aren't doing it on the basis of end-result but rather method. Given that neither discord, nor Excel, nor a physical calculator violate either of the following then it's really a no brainer. As they've stated they frankly don't care if you do or don't. Neither do I. They'll be punishing people for bad behaviour long before they even bother punishing you for the use of ACT. They also went on to state that if this ever changed then you accept the personal responsibility of getting sanctioned due to it.

If you had an excel macro setup to quickly display the data you want, copied out the combat log into that excel file and used it to harrass someone in game, you could and absolutely would get punished for it.

[Kaurhz]

If you had an excel macro setup to quickly display the data you want, copied out the combat log into that excel file and used it to harrass someone in game, you could and absolutely would get punished for it.

Yes because you're being punished for harassment, not for Excel.