Parsing unfair but okay?

[AbysmalDuck]

Their PF, their rules. Don’t like it, then join another or make your own that doesn’t require logs. Simple. It’s not anyone’s business to question what a party leader does with the PF they create.

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

I mean are they wrong though? You pick who you want to be partied with at the end of the day when you set up a PF. And if they don’t meet those expectations you’re within your right to kick them.

I think the party member who forces others to drag their carcass to a clear is more of a buzzkill than anything else.

[Liam_Harper]

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

Why, exactly?

"If you don't like log runs, join one of the countless groups that don't care, or make your own with whatever requirements you like" couldn't be more fair or reasonable. What is your reasoning for disliking it?

[Rilifane]

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

If anything, it's the other way around: they accept that the person setting up the PF sets the rule. Even if they're completely arbitrary and don't make sense like "lala only" or "green glams only".
And everyone has the same right. You could set up a PF asking for a carry and it's just as fine as a PF asking for 90+ logs for a speedrun.
Nobody is forced to join nor is anybody excluded from anything because they can set up a PF to their liking anytime they want.

So if you don't like logs, don't join a PF or static that values them. Plenty of them out there, no reason to be the buzzkill and go by anything else than "your PF/ static, your rules".

[HyoMinPark]

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

I’m not going to apologize for having my opinions, and I stand behind them. When you join a PF, you adhere to whatever rules that PF leader sets. Same for statics. And it can even extend in part to DF when it comes to doing what the majority wants as opposed to having 1 player trying to force a playstyle on 3 others that do not want that playstyle. There’s nothing wrong about that; nothing about it is a “buzzkill”. If we want to talk about personal buzzkills, for me it would be forced into carrying someone who very clearly does not align with the goals of the rest of the group.

As for your displeasure at partying with me: at the risk of seeming slightly rude in my bluntness, I don’t care. I’m not here to seek validation for my opinions or actions. I don’t put stock in internet points. I’m just here to discuss and contest blatant misconceptions.

A lot of people quoted me and instead of responding to each one, it wasn't the specific post I quoted that I'm commenting on. I'm commenting on the totality of responses I've read. If you want to kick people out of your PF, that is fine. You are within your rights as it isn't against ToS. Does it make you a beacon of the community? Absolutely not.

I also find the people that want to be carried a buzzkill as well, but unfortunately, that is the mentality in a lot of society. "C41", I'll sneak in and make it C42. Unsynced mount farm, eh, what is a few deaths? I've seen so much. I even made a PF saying I'd kick people for not knowing Tsukuyomi mechs when farming for materials.

So, if you agree with the premise of “my PF, my rules” and if you dislike the idea of carrying someone through a piece of content, then why bother responding to me at all in the way you did? You clearly don’t disagree with my base premise. Or is it just because you don’t like the things I have to say? I’m more inclined to believe it’s some sort of weird personal beef with me, given that our previous interaction also had me disagreeing with your stance—and as you’ve only been lurking in this thread up until this point; and choose your moment of reveal to be a targeted response towards me. But perhaps I am just overanalyzing the situation.

For the rest of this—as far as I’m aware, I’ve never proclaimed myself to be a “beacon of the community”, nor has anyone else in this thread that is “pro-parser” or “pro-picking-who-I-want-to-do-high-end-content-with”. They’re just responding to the obvious issue illustrated in the OP, in addition to debating the various misconceptions that surround parsers. In all honesty, this isn’t a new conversation. It’s been discussed at length throughout the years I’ve been on here—and neither side has really changed much. But when you’re bored and waiting in 2,000 to 3,000+ queues, guess you gotta pass the time somehow. That’s the reason why I’m in here.

The only reason I've been watching this thread is because I do agree with people who say that parsing should not be used to gatekeep people. Unfortunately, as I've came back from my first time leaving the game, I've started to realize again the reasons I left and it is a little disappointing with how this community behaves.

When it comes to private statics and player-made PFs, gatekeeping is acceptable. We all have the right to choose who we play with when it comes to either of those. Even in randomly matched DF parties, we have the right to choose who we play with. People are free to kick those who don’t contribute to the majority goal just like they’re free to leave a party that clearly doesn’t share their goal, and spend 30 minutes in the Gold Saucer, crafting, gathering, talking with friends, or whatever else they want to do.

I’d have to agree that it is quite disappointing how some people in this community behave. Like attempting to force their way into statics or PFs that very clearly are above them or have different goals from them instead of searching for one more in line with their playstyle or level of skill; or insisting that players blindly report certain PFs because “reasons” or “they’re doing something I personally don’t like”. Or because they believe they’re being righteous in the crusade against third-party tools.

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

This tells me that you don’t understand how parsers, logs, or performance analysis tools work at all. Parsers do not “play the game for you”. They aren’t a script or a bot. They read Battle Log data and compile it in an easy-to-read format. A glorified calculator. That’s literally all a parse is. That you seem to think they play the game for a person implies you have no idea what you’re talking about. Or you’re just trying to spin some kind of weird strawman argument.

To improve, you first need data to show or tell you what you’re doing wrong. This game does not provide that. If you have been reading this thread and my previous responses—which, your response to me implies that you have—then I already explained how lacking in performance feedback this game is; and it has been a major criticism of mine since I started trying to better myself back in 2016. Even the best indication it gives (enrages) are incredibly vague and will not tell a person or party what the exact problem is.

How do you learn from a problem if you have no idea what it actually is? Once you have the data on-hand, then you can analyze it and pinpoint your mistakes and errors—and then rectify them. That is how you learn.

Maybe I'm just someone of the morality that I want to get better on my own. Growing and learning, not be told by a program that I should've casted F4 when I casted F1. If you need Discord to have someone shouting where to move in a raid, do you really deserve the reward at the end? You didn't learn the fight, you followed a marker.

Good luck!

I don’t know what morality really has to do with any of this, so I’m a bit confused on that part. Just because you use tools to learn doesn’t mean you’re shattering your moral compass… As far as I’m aware, the easiest way to learn from things like rotational mistakes and errors is to analyze when and where said mistakes happened, and learn not to do them again. But you can’t do that unless something points you towards them.

As I said: this game will not tell you that you should have used Fire IV here or there over Fire I or Blizzard I or literally any other skill in your arsenal. So you will never know that you were ever doing anything wrong because this game does not provide that sort of feedback. The only way to know is to gather data, analyze it, and then compare it to other data.

Parsers won’t yell at you “Use Fire IV here!” It requires active analysis and active implementation on your part. A far cry from a botting or script program.

[Skyclaw726]

I have. Repeatedly. I've been taking a few screencaps as I'm not sure I'm comfortable with people openly asking for them and have been debating it over with my FC - https://imgur.com/a/aHAqf4l from yesterday for example.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm fine with groups being formed based on logs - but not with it being 'enforced' by elitists on pf.

Actually, what's everyone's thoughts on openly asking for logs in PF? Is it even against TOS?

Ah that's what that number means? yea i've seen a fair number of those..mostly died down on Spriggan but i did see a fair few at launch. Was wondering what that number meant.

[LittleImp]

I have. Repeatedly. I've been taking a few screencaps as I'm not sure I'm comfortable with people openly asking for them and have been debating it over with my FC - https://imgur.com/a/aHAqf4l from yesterday for example.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm fine with groups being formed based on logs - but not with it being 'enforced' by elitists on pf.

Actually, what's everyone's thoughts on openly asking for logs in PF? Is it even against TOS?

So, parties like this generally aren't farm parties or clear parties that a casual player would be interested in joining. They're purpose-made parse parties, where people are attempting to increase their personal-best or compete on the leaderboards.

The reason they're instituting a percentile requirement is because they're looking to try to guarantee a fast kill-time, and need everyone in the party to be pushing high dps in order to accomplish that. It can be encounter dependent, but better kill-times generally add positive skew to your numbers.

In these types of cases it's usually(there are exceptions) not really 'elitism' driving it, because they have a genuine goal in mind that requires a certain level of throughput, and recruiting players below those thresholds would obstruct that goal. If you were putting together an Olympic running team, you probably wouldn't recruit a hobbyist runner that only goes for weekend jogs for example.

Elitism absolutely exists in this game, but is usually more represented by people who constantly look for ways to unreasonably undermine other people in order to elevate themselves, and reframe the genuine accomplishments of others as something beneath them or unimpressive. One instance that sticks in my memory was someone mocking / making fun of a player for having a "low orange" parse. (Orange means you're in the top 5% of runs logged on your job, and is a significant accomplishment for most players).

[AziraSyuren]

Great bait thread, OP. Bravo.

[SaberMaxwell]

Reminds me of back in the day when the contention on the OF was "should a player join a farm pf when they've never done the fight before" honestly. Answer then was the same as now: make your own party to suit your needs, nobody is really being excluded people are just looking for like-goaled people.

[BluexBird]

Join parsing parties. They'll measure for you and you'll be able to see your records.