Tank healing is to high

[Kalaam]

"I don't see any problem so I will invalidate the experience of everyone else"

[ssunny2008]

If the game is already easy (and believe me, it is 90% of the time) enough to not "require" healers then what difference does it make right now? People were already doing cheesy no healer runs last expansion, and the expansion before. It's not new.

Again, incoming damage should go up rather than things being taken away from other roles. It doesn't have to be drastic enough that casual players can't complete things, but enough to apparently force GCD heals out of players since that's seemingly what people want. Let's ignore the fact that tanks can't raise, don't have an rDPS increase, and don't have consistently available aoe healing.

You don't see me complaining when I get a normal mode encounter that has two tanks but no actual mechanics for the 2nd tank. I'm just there as a gimp DPS and that's fine, you're there for safety. In the same way that fates are so easy oftentimes you can do them without a tank or a healer. Game's not balanced around fates, and the flexibility of not need specific roles is a good thing actually. If you're a tank or a healer in a fate party you add way more safety though, and there's still value in having you around even if you're not "required".

I know that´s the most content is trash anyway, but just scaling around with the content or coming with more instadeath-mechanics wouldn´t change anything but cause frustration to the most players. And no, it´s not a new thing. Tanks are broken for a long time now, EW just made it a step worse once again. Only 1 fight in Shb has forced the tanks to melt their defs into tankbuster, E12s and that was it.

So now... what might happen when you just flat scale the damage up from bosses? Tanks get more damage with autohits and through tankbusters. So you´ve to use all your cd´s. But is it good gameplay? And what if you miss 1 def? And what´s with the whole group once you fckd up? Just another insta-wipe because i played failed to press a button? It´s a bad design so far.

Every class should be able to have some self-sustain, some surviveability. But it shouldn´t be usable every 30s, shouldn´t outclass healer and it shouldn´t make a one-man-army out of it.
For example... stuff like the GNB invul would be perfect on a DPS-melee. Why? As emergency button when things go nuts, when the tank died and you might get slapped out of your shoes. But no, tanks which are already strong af, sitting on invul to play around swap-mechanics. Standard mechanics tanks should get used too, but rarely do, thx to invul.

Another one are all those new multitools. Why does such strong skills without any con even exist? What´s the purpose of them? Tanks are able to survive everything even with 5 vuln stacks, but they get such defs on top of it? Meanwhile healer and DPS classes die poorly to the next raidwide with 1 stack? How would it look like with more damage-incomes? That you need a Scholar and all his barriers at any aoe?

I´m really up for any new challenge since i could write novels about "what´s wrong with the games difficulty, balancing and learning curve", but i could also write novels "what´s wrong with tanks". We need more hardhitting content to force more out of tanks yes, but tanks also shouldn´t have more defs than their 123 rotation. Defs should be implemented in a more difficult rotation or locked behind ressources instead of just cooldowns. TBN is a great example for a great def, which is strong when it´s correct used, but will cost you everything if you fck it up. And ofcourse there shouldn´t be major defs to solo everything.
On top nearly every class should get some form of emergency skills and DPS should get more to do than being there to drift around with their rotation while relying on the healers at any raidwide. (And no, Chakra and Bloodbath are a joke. Roleskills overall are.)

If we´ve reached a state where tanks aren´t superior in everything, DPS can eat more than 1 autohit and healers actually use GDC heals, combined with some depth in mechanics, then everything would be great. But it´s not possible to adjust the content in such a direction, when tanks sit on superior tools and only instadeath mechanics are able to kill them.

[Kalaam]

For once I aggree with you ssunny, Invuln are too relied on and this causes some staleness.

[Shurrikhan]

For once I aggree with you ssunny, Invuln are too relied on and this causes some staleness.

Does it particularly matter that they're invulns, though, as opposed to any other defensive?

How does it become an issue of "our strongest per-use defensives seem too important" rather than just "there isn't enough else to mitigate" or "our other defensives aren't frequent enough to make our strongest defensives feel as rare as they are powerful"?

[ssunny2008]

This thread is a freaking joke. All I’m reading is good healers are upset there are buttons now to make it so that their job is easier if the tank can play the game. Do you know how many DF runs i’ve done and seen terrible healers/tanks while playing opposite roles. I don’t honestly care if you think healing is trivialized cause it’s just a load of crap. Unless the tank is good and knows to rotate mitigation, can use it on first pulled mob, doesn’t stand in bad, can time certain cds for TB AND is geared well then my job is VERY active. I find myself using adloquiem far more this expansion than last one.

On the tank side unless my healer understands how to weave, can plan ahead, knows how to use buttons like regen, sacred soil, knows not to just press physic/cure1/bend ic 1, is geared gets how to maintain mana and also dps like it goes on and on bro stop crying you feel unneeded. You want to see the state of the games current real skill level go que up for duty finder 10 times and DONT kick bad tank or healer opposite of what you play.

Just because a lot of ppl, without any clue of their class and possibilities, keep running around, doesn´t mean that everything needs to be overtuned af.

This game has a huge gap between good / bad players, which shows that the learning curve is crap, the "easier please" buttons a fail-design and simplification / homogenization the worst thing which could´ve happen to the game. It´s SE´s and all the complainers fault that so many bad players running around. But a lot of poeple has proven the opposit = Tanks are overtuned.

[Kalaam]

Invuln' are kind of "get out of jail free" card for some mechanics. Now, if the fight is build with it in mind I guess it is fine, but on the other hand it just uses it to remove it from your options so you do not cheese other mechanics with it.

[Atreides]

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.
There is no end to balancing for individuals. I'm glad neither any of you nor I have any say in that.

This is not Blizzard, SE won't go on a nerf spree because of a forum crusade with nerf advocates.

[Kalaam]

There is a difference between making a whole role optional for a huge chunk of the game's content, and 1 job having the possibility to bring everyone back on their feet (but not to full health and at the cost of dumping all of their ressources) so everyone can keep fighting and playing.

[Jybril]

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.

Well in the defense of the RDM, it's literally half a White Mage so...
Don't ask me about SMN having rez. It's still tied to ACN/SCH so it's all weird anyways lol.

[ssunny2008]

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.

Yes it is, like LB3 is. Get ride of them, add only 1 rezz per fight, but give every class more opportunities. This would be really great and skill-depended gameplay without the frustration to wipe, because 1 out of 8 players died again right before "cross lions, relativity, light rampant,...", just to name a few of the latest very popular mechanics.