Tank healing is to high

[Jybril]

I can understand the resistance against turning healers into support DPS, and instead wanting the healing itself be intense and engaging, but I've yet to hear a single realistic way you could rebalance the game to work like that.

Take a look at the healer forums. We have asked this time and time and time again.
The only reason I even mentioned the Support DPS because they haven't done anything to remedy current issues.
So the next best thing is to just move us to DPS. *Shrugs* People already scream at us because we don't DPS enough.

No, the GAME needs to be looked at, not my role. I shouldn't have to perform worse so that YOU can have more fun. The game's damage should go up, not my healing go down.

The game was never designed with GCD heal spamming in mind regardless, this is nothing new. This is LITERALLY HOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN.

You're right, it was "Press 1 DPS button forever as a healer" instead. So you get to use all your spells and skills and I use 1 and occasionally 2.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. We won't see eye to eye so I'll leave it at that. I just want healers to not be crap is all. I don't really want any role/job to be bad.

[Praesul]

In the PoV of game-dev time/resource investment, if one tank can trivialize dungeons, out of the 4 tanks available, the problem is that 1 tank, not a redesign of 3 other tanks and all the dungeons.

I've been trivializing dungeons with every single tank since ARR. The only time dungeons were threatening was that weird period where tank stance wasn't available on PLD until 40. They do not balance, and will not ever balance the game around dungeons. In fact that is the specific reason the devs have said they don't plan on adding extra content like WoW's Mythic+ dungeon system. The game is NOT balanced around 4 man content.

[Atreides]

In the PoV of game-dev time/resource investment, if one tank can trivialize dungeons, out of the 4 tanks available, the problem is that 1 tank, not a redesign of 3 other tanks and all the dungeons.

Thats what we're talking about the one tank that needs to be adressed is DRK because he is the only one that feels bad in dungeons.

[ssunny2008]

As strong WAR is in Dungeons right now with their selfheals, in raids/trials they can't completely selfsustain themselves for long.

They can. The only bad thing are the overused multi-stack marks. But with a decent cd-management or even LB1 here and there it´s possible and not only on WAR.

I don't see how it's tank's fault that incoming damage as a whole is so low that you can effectively heal an entire encounter with planned oGCDs. That's how it was before this expansion. Making my role less fun because you're not satisfied with yours is the worst way to go about it.

If you want more healing to do then beg the devs to make damage more threatening, don't gimp me because you're frustrated. You don't see me complaining when healers get damage reduction, especially when SGE has % reduction out the wazoo.

Should I be making threads advocating for the removal of all damage reducing effects in the game that aren't on tanks? Bye bye Addle, Feint, Temperance. Damage reduction is a tank's job, not the healer or DPS. :/

Your claim doesn´t make much sense.

It would be the same if the game is getting tuned up to the point where tanks actually need some brain to use, as if the tanks are getting nerfed in their current form. It would be the same... but you´ve less work to adjust some classes instead of redesigning every encounter. On top the game would be like "You need a tank who´s able to make use of ALL his tools, otherwise they group will wipe permanently", if they adjust the encounters only. (I would prefer both combined, but that´s another thing.)

[Jybril]

Most of these Warriors posting have me thinking: "What? You wanna take away MY HEALS, HEALER!? I don't need you! I don't need any of you!" - Angy warriors.
Me a sad healer: FeelsSadMan... ):
DRK's who need love: Well, I'm still here...

Welp as long as I'm needed somewhere. Gotta find the silver lining somewhere lol.

[Praesul]

They can. The only bad thing are the overused multi-stack marks. But with a decent cd-management or even LB1 here and there it´s possible and not only on WAR.



Your claim doesn´t make much sense.

It would be the same if the game is getting tuned up to the point where tanks actually need some brain to use, as if the tanks are getting nerfed in their current form. It would be the same... but you´ve less work to adjust some classes instead of redesigning every encounter. On top the game would be like "You need a tank who´s able to make use of ALL his tools, otherwise they group will wipe permanently", if they adjust the encounters only. (I would prefer both combined, but that´s another thing.)

If the game is already easy (and believe me, it is 90% of the time) enough to not "require" healers then what difference does it make right now? People were already doing cheesy no healer runs last expansion, and the expansion before. It's not new.

Again, incoming damage should go up rather than things being taken away from other roles. It doesn't have to be drastic enough that casual players can't complete things, but enough to apparently force GCD heals out of players since that's seemingly what people want. Let's ignore the fact that tanks can't raise, don't have an rDPS increase, and don't have consistently available aoe healing.

You don't see me complaining when I get a normal mode encounter that has two tanks but no actual mechanics for the 2nd tank. I'm just there as a gimp DPS and that's fine, you're there for safety. In the same way that fates are so easy oftentimes you can do them without a tank or a healer. Game's not balanced around fates, and the flexibility of not need specific roles is a good thing actually. If you're a tank or a healer in a fate party you add way more safety though, and there's still value in having you around even if you're not "required".

[Risvertasashi]

If the game is already easy (and believe me, it is 90% of the time) enough to not "require" healers then what difference does it make right now? People were already doing cheesy no healer runs last expansion, and the expansion before. It's not new.

That doesn't mean we should make it worse. Lowering healing requirements even more (which this expansion did via massive tank healing buffs) is a step in the wrong direction, not the right one.

[Praesul]

That doesn't mean we should make it worse. Lowering healing requirements even more (which this expansion did via massive tank healing buffs) is a step in the wrong direction, not the right one.

You will still be a safety net in the vast majority of content even if they removed all the self-healing from tanks completely. Again, healing has rarely been so intense that you absolutely 100% need two healers to accomplish your task. It's true for dungeons, for fates, for eureka, bozja, pvp.

You will still be planning out your oGCD heals and doing the bare minimum you need to keep everyone alive, if that.


If you want to spam heals 24/7 then the game needs to change, nerfing tanks won't accomplish anything. Aoe damage should be more frequent, boss autos should either hit harder or occur more frequently, otherwise things will always be the way they've always been.

Healers still have a niche in that they're still the role with the most agency when things go badly. They have the best tools to save other players, make up for people messing up mechanics, etc etc. And that's why people will always WANT to have them even if they don't "NEED" them.

[Risvertasashi]

You will still be a safety net in the vast majority of content even if they removed all the self-healing from tanks completely. Again, healing has rarely been so intense that you absolutely 100% need two healers to accomplish your task. It's true for dungeons, for fates, for eureka, bozja, pvp.

You will still be planning out your oGCD heals and doing the bare minimum you need to keep everyone alive, if that.


If you want to spam heals 24/7 then the game needs to change, nerfing tanks won't accomplish anything. Aoe damage should be more frequent, boss autos should either hit harder or occur more frequently, otherwise things will always be the way they've always been.

Healers still have a niche in that they're still the role with the most agency when things go badly. They have the best tools to save other players, make up for people messing up mechanics, etc etc. And that's why people will always WANT to have them even if they don't "NEED" them.

I don't think so. There's been times in the game's past when solo healing (and solo tanking, yes) were pretty common. Being able to take 5 or 6 DPS has massive benefits as well - faster kills, less mechanics seen, more reliability. And you'll fill your PF faster.

It's possible SE will continually include mechanics that force 2 tanks and/or healers - they seem fond of shared tankbusters so far in EW, for example - but outside of that, there's no shortage of people all too happy to dump tanks and healers when they can.

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Now to address the wider issue, because people say similar things on the healer forums: Yes, if you want more healing, there needs to be different and probably more fundamental changes as well. Yes, the low healing requirements have been a "problem" if seen as such for a while.

But more than one problem can exist at a time. Endwalker introduced a new one. Just because this problem exists, doesn't negate the old problems. And just because the old problems exist, doesn't negate the tank healing problem.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

This thread is a freaking joke. All I’m reading is good healers are upset there are buttons now to make it so that their job is easier if the tank can play the game. Do you know how many DF runs i’ve done and seen terrible healers/tanks while playing opposite roles. I don’t honestly care if you think healing is trivialized cause it’s just a load of crap. Unless the tank is good and knows to rotate mitigation, can use it on first pulled mob, doesn’t stand in bad, can time certain cds for TB AND is geared well then my job is VERY active. I find myself using adloquiem far more this expansion than last one.

On the tank side unless my healer understands how to weave, can plan ahead, knows how to use buttons like regen, sacred soil, knows not to just press physic/cure1/bend ic 1, is geared gets how to maintain mana and also dps like it goes on and on bro stop crying you feel unneeded. You want to see the state of the games current real skill level go que up for duty finder 10 times and DONT kick bad tank or healer opposite of what you play.