Tank healing is to high

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Yes it is, like LB3 is. Get ride of them, add only 1 rezz per fight, but give every class more opportunities. This would be really great and skill-depended gameplay without the frustration to wipe, because 1 out of 8 players died again right before "cross lions, relativity, light rampant,...", just to name a few of the latest very popular mechanics.

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

[Shurrikhan]

Invuln' are kind of "get out of jail free" card for some mechanics. Now, if the fight is build with it in mind I guess it is fine, but on the other hand it just uses it to remove it from your options so you do not cheese other mechanics with it.

Every sufficient (set of) defensive(s) is likewise a "get out of jail free" card, though, so long as it and the mechanics around it could otherwise have been survived without it.

I don't see why that would make invulns inherently bad, unless we'd also go so far as to say that Surecast, Swiftcast, Rescue, and the like are similarly "cheese" that must be curtailed or removed. (Don't need to preposition for or wait until after the DDR mechanics nor sacrifice more than a GCD's uptime to rez; just Swiftcast, up to once per minute. Don't need to do the movement mechanic to prevent death by knockback; just Surecast, up to once per two minutes.)

If they seem overly impactful at present, it's likely because they're not accounted for to the extent they should be. We have stackable healer external mitigation up to our ears; there's no reason to assume we should be able to spare a single tank CD, let alone at least one healer's barrier or percentile mitigation suite, to keep a pair of tanks alive without an invuln. Increase the frequency and power of moderate tankbusters (the kind that need mitigation and a top-off, but won't kill over a +/- 5% or missing food) and once invulns are no longer a way to simply leave other cooldowns on reserve out of sheer ease or additional healer offensive GCDs, voila, they'd no longer feel like "cheese" so much as a powerful emergency button by which to resurface for air or recover a single overexpenditure.

[Shurrikhan]

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

They've been saying that since HW, and increasingly with each unasked for or controversial buff to said invulns. Why would those complaints' still being a thing make this a "troll thread"?

I don't necessarily agree with them, but that sentiments have been around basically since Holmgang stopped being a mere mob-grab / punishing knockback resist.

[ssunny2008]

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

I mean my stuff serious. Invuls are way too strong and let tanks skip way too much mechanics they should play around. They´re better placed on DPS classes in emergency-situations or shouldn´t even exist.
And stuff like permarezz is way too forgivable too. I´ve seen dozens of grps killing a boss only with healer LB3, which is laughable since you´re able to skip whole mechanics too as long as you´ve 1 healer or rezzplayer knowing what to do. That the whole raid don´t even get a weakness debuff after it, is laughable at best. Healer LB3 should definately not exist meanwhile rezz should´ve a raid-cooldown which might increase like "1st rezz 30s cd, 2nd rezz 1min cd,..."

Such tools are a major reason why we can´t have some serious content. Way too much stuff is too powerful or too forgivable, so the only chance to give us something challenging is called "instadeath, instawipe". I would always trade such major skills for a better and skill-depended gameplay, where you can live without that 8 person if needed and if you´re good enough ofc.

Every sufficient (set of) defensive(s) is likewise a "get out of jail free" card, though, so long as it and the mechanics around it could otherwise have been survived without it.

Using multiple buttons is more than using one button, but that´s not even the point. Multiple tankbuster, where you would need to taunt, heal against stacks or whatever (E12 / E10) are outplayed by the use of invul. PLD could even bring the healer through a deadly mechanic to use LB3 after. That´s just lame.
Tanks have already way too less stuff to care for in their role. Invul makes the one last thing even worse. Not even for them only, also for the healer.

None skill should allow such stuff. And while you said "Rescue"... it´s actually a perfect example for such emergency buttons. To be that fast to safe that one person in strong mechanics is somehow different than pressing 1 button to be immune the next x seconds and to ignore tankswaps or even debuffs on PLD.

[Absimiliard]

Using multiple buttons is more than using one button, but that´s not even the point. Multiple tankbuster, where you would need to taunt, heal against stacks or whatever (E12 / E10) are outplayed by the use of invul. PLD could even bring the healer through a deadly mechanic to use LB3 after. That´s just lame.
Tanks have already way too less stuff to care for in their role. Invul makes the one last thing even worse. Not even for them only, also for the healer.

You do know the fights are balanced in part around tanks abusing their invulns, right? Making effective use of your invulns is very much part of being a good tank, and it certainly does qualify as a role responsibility despite all the protestations.
Invulnerabilities trivialize nothing. You are still going to wipe if the rest of your group isn't holding things down on their end.

[shao32]

That's not entirely true, Invuls had beeing trivialicing combat mechanics making his execution way more easy to handle is always has being a thing but in SHB has been specialy severe due the fighs having oo little tank busters and tank mechanics you complete the fight by 1º TB using invul, 2º TB using all your CDs and 3º TB using your invul again and you pass the combat.
We don't have mitigation management since so long due the poor encounter design from a tank perspective that Invul feel like they just make the tank high end experience more brain dead of what is already is, it need to be nerfed or removed? mmm idk but what i think is the encounter design should double the amount of TBs and make sure every fight involve proper mitigation management from both tanks and not just a couple TB per encounter leaving our kit mostly unused and wasted on AA or used bcs you are bored.

[Boldprint]

this thread is absurd.

[ssunny2008]

You do know the fights are balanced in part around tanks abusing their invulns, right? Making effective use of your invulns is very much part of being a good tank, and it certainly does qualify as a role responsibility despite all the protestations.
Invulnerabilities trivialize nothing. You are still going to wipe if the rest of your group isn't holding things down on their end.

The content is balanced around the worse stuff possible yes. But you could take several tankbuster with 1-2 defs + healersupport too. At some you would need to swap, ofc... even if the content doesn´t force it, it should be done to keep the cooldowns rolling and to assist the healers.
But it´s not needed, pressing "invul" makes everything obsolet and leave the most defs untouched for the rest of the fight, since autohits are healed by playing 123. Not to mention that being OT these days is really nothing more than being a blue DPS. You don´t have anything to do unless the raid wants you to take the 2nd tankbuster with invul or you´ve doubletankbusters like in E12. The most fights went even so far that the MT is like "Thx for eating the tankbuster, i´ll take the boss back now."

If invul stays in the game, they should delete all but the unique defs on tanks, because they´re not really needed with it in the bag. Otherwise we need way bosses like the current first primal, which force you to swap and to stay like this, or P3 with the shared damage, but with the tripled amount of damage / tankbusters.

And just as a sidenote... it goes so far imo, that i´ve to use my heal on SGE into nowhere, just to get 7% mana back to keep spamming 11111. It says enough i guess.

[Dracosavarian]

Snip

There have been far, far, far too many situations in the history of this entire game where a Tank using their Invuln has prevented a 24 man raid, much less other content, from being a massive, colossal waste of time for everyone involved.


No. Tank Invulns stay.

They can make a tremendous amount of difference for all involved, and I as a Dark Knight have prevented way too many Ivalice Raids back in the day from failing entirely thanks to the scant few seconds more LD granted me against a boss with a sliver of health whilst the alliance was dead around me.

Even as much as I hate LD, I will gladly fire it off if it means the difference between victory, or everyone having to fight a difficult boss for yet another span of time when they just want it done with so they can move on to other things.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

This is an absolute joke. Before anyone comments on this thread about the current state of tanking you should be SUBJECT to duty finder/party finder groups for a few weeks of leveling classes. You will see the real state of the game and understand why there are so many things in it to make casual/even competitive non static stuff the way it is.