Paladin weakest Tank now

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I hate that this has what its come to for tanking. They are turning into blue DPS and their doing it to get more people to play it. If I wanted to DPS, I'd play one. This shit is getting ridiculous. They need to tone it down a notch and to back to focus on being tanks.

I mean tanks focusing on DPS has ALWAYS been the case within XIV, if you're oblivious to it, then you really haven't done much in the way of meaningful content as a tank. There are other games out there where you hit enemies as if you were using a foam bat and have like 5 skills and you mash your defensive button before the damage comes in, if that's more to your liking. But, this is how XIV tanking and combat in general works, it's about getting as much damage out as possible to meet DPS checks. There is casual content where the DPS check is non existent within XIV which you can stick to, but don't gatekeep the higher end of the player base just because you don't like the DPS centric meta that has been around for forever.

[Ryaduera]

and DRK still has the best Tank CD in the game.

Except it doesn't. Let's just say a tank buster does 75% of a tanks max HP as damage. Let's pick a nice and simple but realistic number to be the tanks HP at 70,000. Now keep in mind, a 75% tank buster is by all means a weak tank buster. Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate content will always outright kill a tank that did not use a mitigation. This will be important later.

We can ignore Ramparts and Shadow Wall for this as each tank has equal abilities to consider.

75% of 70,000 is 52,500 so we can use this as the damage the tankbuster is doing. Considering only the unique cooldowns DRK has access to we can easily calculate just how much mitigation this is. The good thing about TBN is that being a shield it doesn't actually suffer from diminishing returns, it's basically just increasing your max HP in effect. The math here is easy. 25% of 70,000 is 17,500 and Oblation reduces the tank buster by 10% for a value of 5,250. You reduce the tankbusters damage down by effectively 22,750, for an overall damage total of 29,750 damage going through, Result, your DRK HP is now at 40,250/70000

Now let's look at GNB Heart of Corundum. There's actually something a little funny in the way this mitigation works, since the initial mitigation and the 4 second bonus are separate buffs they actually suffer from diminishing returns. No big deal, easy math, you lose overall 2.25% mitigation (15% of 15 is the loss here) for a total mitigation of 27.75% damage reduction. This reduces the damage by 14569 (14568.75 rounded up) dealing 37931 damage leaving our GNB at 32069/70000. Technically, this is less mitigation, however anything that drops the GNB below half health will activate their heal, which on my GNB is 11,000 ~ 12,000 HP healed after the damage done. Let's round it down so I don't accidentally inflate the math here, down to 10,000. This still leaves us at 42,069/70,000, more than the DRK has after the same tankbuster.

This puts us at 40,250 on the DRK and 42069 on the GNB for a difference of 1,819 more HP on the GNB. But there's more. Like I said, 75% of max HP is a pretty weak tank busters as most relevant content tank busters will just outright kill a tank that doesn't mitigate. Let's take the same values and mitigations for a tank buster that would deal all 70,000 of the tanks HP and look at the difference.

DRK: 70,000x 0.10 =7,000 Oblation mitigation. 17,500 blocked by TBN. 24,500 total damage mitigated. Total damage dealt: 45500.

GNB: 70,000x 0.2775 =19,425 Heart of Corundum mitigation and total damage blocked. 10,000 Hp healed after. 29425 total damage mitigated. Total damage dealt: 40575.

DRK remaining HP is 24500
GNB remaining HP is 29425
Difference: 4925

You can see the way the math works out the more damage a tank takes the weaker TBN is by comparison. The literal only thing keeping TBN even somewhat mentionable next to he other skills is it's cooldown, but it's a DPS loss to not break it and also tied to a resource you need to balance. You are putting in more effort to keep your MP up for less reward. And this is without even mentioning that this math included a second cooldown in favor of the DRK. The larger the damage taken, the more favorable HoC is over pairing TBN with Oblation. The problem is that TBN will only ever mitigate the same amount of hp in complete disregard of the amount of damage taken. TBN is only good if the tank is taking less damage. Do keep in mind, the math adds up even in the case of multiple strikes as long as it falls within the 4 second window, after that, multi-strike mitigation math gets more complex.

Now, there is something that must be said. TBN can in theory save you where HoC can't. In order to take the heal from HoC, you must first survive the initial damage, where TBN is essentially an increase in max HP. The problem lies in the fact that in order for the other 3 tanks to be tanks this scenario cannot exist within the games content. If this scenario did exist, DRK would just be mandatory for the content no matter what, and Squeenix won't do that for any role, especially not tanks. The only exception being that if TBN is being placed on either a squishier DPS/healer that made a mistake on a mechanic, or a tank that has vulnerability stacks, in which case TBN may actually be preferable, but you could also just... Learn the fight... The only scenario in which TBN is better is when damage is either negligible, or one brought about by mistakes in ones gameplay.TBN is a great skill, especially when paired with other mitigations, but DRK just... doesn't get other mitigations. Dark Mind? Not good. Camouflage on the same GNB is 10% damage reduction, straight up, as well as a parry rate, being doubly better than Dark Mind. Dark Passenger? We have the same thing in Heart of Light.

Also, I don't normally add chance to a discussion like this since I absolutely hate chance, but I think it has some relevance here since the chance here works in favor of the skill that is already better. TBN cannot crit. The heal from HoC can. That is very worth considering. The skill that is already consistently a better performer has a chance to perform even better. Rest in Pieces Dark Knight. Petition to birng back a modernized version of Sole Survivor.

[IcyPrisoner]

I figured the poster boy treatment was gonna be a curse , PLD is 10% behind DRK on dps might as well use him for prog and then toss him in the closet unless we get a decent balance patch.

Only thing Pld needs is slight increase of dmg. Dmg is not as important as tank, Yes i do agree that the extra damage does help to clear faster but so does utility i.e healers can do more dmg without healing (in Raids). Pld will always be the lowest dps tank because it has the brings the alot of utility to the table and it has 8 GCD on Range of course you gonna be the lowest dps tank. what do you think that SE gonna do? I think alot this stems from the last couple xpacs were PLD was Overpowered and people are hurt from the changes. War and PLD got alot QoL and drk got one little change and you complaining about tiny bit of damage, Just blows my mind really

[ThorneDynasty]

If anything the fact DRK is (by a wide margin) still the least popular tank, followed by GNB, while PLD is the second most popular should be a pretty clear indication the "DPS is King!" crowd is basically a vocal minority.

[Abomination713]

Only thing Pld needs is slight increased of dmg. Dmg is not as important as tank, Yes i do agree that the extra damage does help to clear faster but so does utility i.e healers can do more dmg without healing (in Raids). Pld will always be the lowest dps tank because it has the brings the alot of utility to the table and it has 8 GCD on Range of course you gonna be the lowest dps tank. what do you think that SE gonna do? I think alot this stems from the last couple xpacs were PLD was Overpowered about people are hurt from the changes. War and PLD got alot QoL and drk got one little change and you complaining about tiny bit of damage, Just blows my mind really

PLD has never been overpowered and were a joke until 4.0 (when we could finally block magic attacks). I know this cause I've been maining them since 2.0. Remember Flash? Stance Dancing? Tank stance at 40? I remember all of them. You people love to throw that term "utility" around and you don't even understand what that means. Cover is a useless ability outside of very specific instances where you can use it for cheese and that's only with a static, Passage of Arms is only used for very specific area wide attacks from bosses that allow everyone to get together, we are the only tank that can stun lock at will with Shield Bash and the only time that has ever been relevant is during Leviathan, we are the only tank that does not benefit from using our group protect ability (Divine Veil) and the only one that has a weird heal gate on it for literally no reason (which makes no sense since if I'm trying to use the ability it's obviously not for me so why even stop me from using it when I want to?). The one skill that really is great at utility is Clemency and that got nerfed hard this expansion for no reason when they lowered the potency by 200 (yet all healing potency in the game went up for healers) and they took away the 50% increased heals during Requiscat so now if we have to use Clemency for any reason during our Magic phase, we waste a stack and have nothing to show for it.

The 8 ranged GCD is only at level 90. Before that it was 5 and you have to remember that we have to be in range of the enemy to even start our Magic phase. Most of the time we never leave the enemy's side while casting it so can you even call it a ranged attack most of the time? Would be nice if we could cast Requiscat at range.

[IcyPrisoner]

PLD has never been overpowered and were a joke until 4.0 (when we could finally block magic attacks). I know this cause I've been maining them since 2.0. Remember Flash? Stance Dancing? Tank stance at 40? I remember all of them. You people love to throw that term "utility" around and you don't even understand what that means. Cover is a useless ability outside of very specific instances where you can use it for cheese and that's only with a static, Passage of Arms is only used for very specific area wide attacks from bosses that allow everyone to get together, we are the only tank that can stun lock at will with Shield Bash and the only time that has ever been relevant is during Leviathan, we are the only tank that does not benefit from using our group protect ability (Divine Veil) and the only one that has a weird heal gate on it for literally no reason (which makes no sense since if I'm trying to use the ability it's obviously not for me so why even stop me from using it when I want to?). The one skill that really is great at utility is Clemency and that got nerfed hard this expansion for no reason when they lowered the potency by 200 (yet all healing potency in the game went up for healers) and they took away the 50% increased heals during Requiscat so now if we have to use Clemency for any reason during our Magic phase, we waste a stack and have nothing to show for it.

The 8 ranged GCD is only at level 90. Before that it was 5 and you have to remember that we have to be in range of the enemy to even start our Magic phase. Most of the time we never leave the enemy's side while casting it so can you even call it a ranged attack most of the time? Would be nice if we could cast Requiscat at range.

Lol do you know the meaning of "couple" it means two
oh please do inlight me about "utility"
wow 1 skill that is useless, you have Two options to mitigation aoes 3 if you including reprisal one more then every other tank.
Clemency really? do you think any pld in this chat room actually use clemency in raid, 200 potency +buff is not really a lose when you get self sustian on every holy spirit which which doesnt actually cost your dmg so free healing without no penalty, i would happy trade 200 potency for a free 1600 potency of healing if you use all 4 holy spirits
well thats on you then there loads fight that you can use 4 gcds at range For I.e E5S for the thunder bird and its still more then the other tanks

[Abomination713]

Lol do you know the meaning of "couple" it means two
oh please do inlight me about "utility"
wow 1 skill that is useless, you have Two options to mitigation aoes 3 if you including reprisal one more then every other tank.
Clemency really? do you think any pld in this chat room actually use clemency in raid, 200 potency +buff is not really a lose when you get self sustian on every holy spirit which which doesnt actually cost your dmg so free healing without no penalty, i would happy trade 200 potency for a free 1600 potency of healing if you use all 4 holy spirits
well thats on you then there loads fight that you can use 4 gcds at range For I.e E5S for the thunder bird and its still more then the other tanks

What about PLD's that aren't 82 yet? They lost 200 potency and the 50% increased heals as well and don't have Holy Sheltron/Spirit/Circle to rely on when shit goes wrong. It's not all about you. It's pretty funny how PLD having ranged attacks makes them OP, yet we are dead last in the DPS department even with all those extra hits that others tanks can't do. Yep, sure makes sense!

You do also know that Clemency isn't just used for us, right? There have been plenty of times where i had to use it to save a healer when things went wrong in a fight or keep the DPS alive in a dungeon if the healer died. I use Clemency on other more than I do on myself.

[IcyPrisoner]

What about PLD's that aren't 82 yet? They lost the 50% increased heals as well and don't have Holy Sheltron/Spirit/Circle to rely on when shit goes wrong. It's not all about you. It's pretty funny how PLD having ranged attacks makes them OP, yet we are dead last in the DPS department even with all those extra hits that others tanks can't do. Those sure do add up!

Who reviews a job at 82, when most of the content you will be doing will be the full job at 90?? Leveling is different matter when this fourm is about the lvl 90
and did you even read on what i said "Only thing Pld needs is slight increased of dmg". Yes atm Pld is dead last because there no real down time or you have move away from the bosses for more then a gcds or two in the fight. when you get into the new savage thats when it will become more valueable

[Oizen]

If anything the fact DRK is (by a wide margin) still the least popular tank, followed by GNB, while PLD is the second most popular should be a pretty clear indication the "DPS is King!" crowd is basically a vocal minority.

I don't think optimal class picks have ever lead to high pickrates vs whats actually satisfying to play.

DRK isn't popular because its jank, has no class identity, and barely has utility outside of a single move. The fact that it dumblucked itself to top DPS by adding even more completely unrelated random bullshit ogcds doesn't make the class any more appealing.

[Abomination713]

Who reviews a job at 82, when most of the content you will be doing will be the full job at 90?? Leveling is different matter when this fourm is about the lvl 90
and did you even read on what i said "Only thing Pld needs is slight increased of dmg". Yes atm Pld is dead last because there no real down time or you have move away from the bosses for more then a gcds or two in the fight. when you get into the new savage thats when it will become more valueable

Hope you don't go into any level synced content that's below level 82 than....