Paladin weakest Tank now

[NeoDivinity]

You people love to throw that term "utility" around and you don't even understand what that means. Cover is a useless ability outside of very specific instances where you can use it for cheese and that's only with a static, Passage of Arms is only used for very specific area wide attacks from bosses that allow everyone to get together, we are the only tank that does not benefit from using our group protect ability (Divine Veil) and the only one that has a weird heal gate on it for literally no reason . The one skill that really is great at utility is Clemency and that got nerfed hard this expansion for no reason when they lowered the potency by 200 (yet all healing potency in the game went up for healers) and they took away the 50% increased heals during Requiscat so now if we have to use Clemency for any reason during our Magic phase, we waste a stack and have nothing to show for it.

The 8 ranged GCD is only at level 90. Before that it was 5 and you have to remember that we have to be in range of the enemy to even start our Magic phase. Most of the time we never leave the enemy's side while casting it so can you even call it a ranged attack most of the time? Would be nice if we could cast Requiscat at range.

Welp not entirely truth, if you main PLD since 2.0 as you say i might also know that Passage of Arms Buff persists even if u cancel the channeling, so it is useful in almost any Raid AoE specially since it's a OGCD, Divine Veil still have the healgate but its super strong and now we have the ability to proc it w/o depending on the Healer nor having to cast Clemency.

Clemency that is not that nerfed since we always had to pick weather to heal or DPS, the difference is that now we have plenty of Mana to spare and the adjustment to magic status makes up for the potency nerfs, what is clear to see if look at numbers and the fact that Holy Spirit hit like a truck now.

Utility means that you have a kit that can approach a situation with various options at hand, not that you use all of them everytime.

About the ranged combo, cmon, even with only 2 primals and a normal raid tier we can see the advantage to being able to pre req and finish the combo outside of the melee range.

Just like the other Tanks of course we have useless abilites for Endgame content ffs Warrior got an AoE Upheavel so yeah Shield bash and Cover are super niche but still if you need'em there they are, maybe u can use to help a newbie healer out on a dungeon or something i dont know.

All that said, yeah the only thing PLD needs right now is a slight damage buff or we wait to see how stats will scale with him.

Hope you don't go into any level synced content that's below level 82 than....

This is just trolling, every class has issues if not on the most recent level cap. With this mentality we would be asking for buffs on glatiator lvl 15

[Undeadfire]

Needs more than slight to be honest, 300-400 DPS difference at max potentials, vs other tanks is pretty large, making the job really terrible for raid prog, and utility isn't going to save it. In fact why even bring the job the way it currently is?

It's not even remotely worth doing 4x Atonement FoF, and 6x Atonement FoF burst is even pretty terrible, the job lacks any potential burst to sync with raid cooldowns, Warrior/Gunbreaker/Dark Knight burst ouput far more value over time.

Atonements need to be tuned up to make it worth doing 4x Atonement again, and Blades utterly feel weak, it barely beats FoF opener. Optimising Paladin is a major chore, failing to level DPS with Warrior/Gunbreaker.

Paladin has been known for a while to reward solid DPS being optimised.

[NeoDivinity]

Atonements need to be tuned up to make it worth doing 4x Atonement again.

Why so? Classes rotation changes every expansion, i dont get why ppl are so obsessed with the 4 atonement rotation that wasnt even intended from the start, just something ppl found out and SE didnt fixed.

In fact why even bring the job the way it currently is?

Because ppl play with the jobs they like the most, that what the majority of the players do. Not everyone is Omnitank, and no one will exclude someone just because they're a Paladin or avoid DRKs because they need more group mitigation. If you talk about prog, the one that will be hurted the most in my perspective is GNB that is painful to align with the party and the levels on clunkyness on the job are trough the roof. Despite the charts showing a higher DPSs this is only true while they're already farming the bosses.

FoF burst is even pretty terrible, the job lacks any potential burst to sync with raid cooldowns

Just not true, FoF as 60 gcd syncs very fine with Trick attack and Chain Strat specially, making up for the need to crit on Atones and ogcds to sustain the DPSs trough out the fight. Also it is veeeery hard to mess up the rotation and even if you do the unbuff atonement window serves as a perfect spot to adjust that.

Even if you start with the -16/-17 FoF Rotation wich is optional.

[Undeadfire]

Yes atm Pld is dead last because there no real down time or you have move away from the bosses for more then a gcds or two in the fight. when you get into the new savage thats when it will become more valueable

This is nonsense, Paladin required optimising in Savage fights if it were to remotely defeat Dark Knight in Shadowbringers, otherwise it's rotation would be all over the place completely making it a dead weight in it's de-synced rotation. Top/High tier raid groups learn to uptime strategies over time of progression, driving out Paladin if it were to stay as it is. DPS is always going to remain a dominant force in 14 raids, having one extra raid group utility will not push it up.

It's only dead because it's DPS is horribly bad while optimised, if it's not optimised you can stretch the DPS length 500-700 difference.

Holy Sheltron/Holy Spirit/Circle self healing are grossly overestimated on their capability, and failing to understand Holy Spirit/Circle do not have a choice when to use. Sheltron/Intervention? You have to keep their cooldowns on a rotated roll, or you're already losing value holding when needed. These abilities aren't a free system to pop, 12s Regen, 4 sec Damage taken for Sheltron/Intervention, 8s damage taken reduction for Intervention vs 24-25s points melee uptime gain to afford their cost.

[Undeadfire]

Why so? Classes rotation changes every expansion, i dont get why ppl are so obsessed with the 4 atonement rotation that wasnt even intended from the start, just something ppl found out and SE didnt fixed.

It's value of DPS to carry a non buffed Atonement across to a FoF window, Fof will fall off soon the last GCD is hit. Right now? It's not.

Because ppl play with the jobs they like the most, that what the majority of the players do. Not everyone is Omnitank, and no one will exclude someone just because they're a Paladin or avoid DRKs because they need more group mitigation. If you talk about prog, the one that will be hurted the most in my perspective is GNB that is painful to align with the party and the levels on clunkyness on the job are trough the roof. Despite the charts showing a higher DPSs this is only true while they're already farming the bosses.

Not saying exclude, just saying it hurts the team bringing one for early weeks Savage prog unbuffed, Paladin has the toughest time pushing their DPS up against others without a planned rotation throughout a whole mechanic rotation.

ust not true, FoF as 60 gcd syncs very fine with Trick attack and Chain Strat specially, making up for the need to crit on Atones and ogcds to sustain the DPSs trough out the fight. Also it is veeeery hard to mess up the rotation and even if you do the unbuff atonement window serves as a perfect spot to adjust that.

Even if you start with the -16/-17 FoF Rotation wich is optional.

Actually it's currently 61-64s, it's more value for raid groups skipping an unbuffed Atonement continuing the rotation to stay synced with 60s-2min buffs, Atonements potency is literally horrible. It's only not worth skipping if you're going for your own focused log. In Shadowbringers you skipped Holy Spirit twice in a fight (Once in a rotation and a 2nd time in another rotation) to stay synced on instant Trick Attacks, Fof would fall seconds behind.

[Abomination713]

This is just trolling, every class has issues if not on the most recent level cap. With this mentality we would be asking for buffs on glatiator lvl 15

How is it trolling? Just because you don't understand simple concepts like PLD no longer having the ability to boost their heals by 50% anymore and you can't use the excuse that we have Holy Sheltron/Spirit/Circle as to why the 50% increased heals were taken away, doesn't mean it's a troll. I bet you think people that want the heal gate removed on Divine Veil are trolls too, huh?

It was a great utility and there were times I ruined my own DPS to save Requiscat for those increased heals to make sure the party survived when I had to. Now we can't do that anymore.

[NeoDivinity]

PLD no longer having the ability to boost their heals by 50% anymore

I ruined my own DPS to save Requiscat for those increased heals to make sure the party survived when I had to. Now we can't do that anymore.

Are you for some reason trying to replace the Healers in your group? Of crouse not having heal gate on Divine Veil would be nice but yet now is very easy to selfproc and if you're talking synced content like Ultimates, ffs no one pops AoE defensives on the fly, its very scripted when you should use it when doing this type of content. So no, using it below 90 wouldnt be a problem.

If you really like Clemency so much you should know that on a Melee DPS on lvl 90 with 570ish item level the ability even unbuffed heals almost 1/4 of its HP, if it crits you heal 2/4 of your party member health, more than that would be super broken. You can test it yourself.

If PLD have some issues i assure you Clemency isnt one of them

[Undeadfire]

Clemency was only so powerful thanks to the Reqs requirement, you popped outside of it, you killed the buff and it's heavy MP cost.

Clemency restrictions got lowered and actually pretty useful for downtime, 1K mp, reqs grants it's buff in either cases, it's a good balance not gonna lie.

[eagledorf]

Paladin has the most robust kit in terms of utility, self-sustain, and mitigation. This in turn allows your healers to output more dps on your behalf, which is why things are balanced this way. You've already had two expansions as hands down the most dominant tank, heaven forbid that you're not the best tank at everything.

Lol, how can anybody say this with a straight face when healers do such poor DPS now and so much healing happens between GCD anyway? You're not going to squeeze the hundreds of DPS a PLD is below the other tanks out of the healers. That may have been true way back in the day, but not today.

What's especially frustrating is DRK and WAR are basically braindead rotation-wise too, it's not like when WAR had to squeeze an extra IB inside Infuriate to do marginally better DPS than a PLD, a DRK can faceroll the keyboard and do substantially better DPS.

[Bhearil]

Lol, how can anybody say this with a straight face when healers do such poor DPS now and so much healing happens between GCD anyway? You're not going to squeeze the hundreds of DPS a PLD is below the other tanks out of the healers. That may have been true way back in the day, but not today.

What's especially frustrating is DRK and WAR are basically braindead rotation-wise too, it's not like when WAR had to squeeze an extra IB inside Infuriate to do marginally better DPS than a PLD, a DRK can faceroll the keyboard and do substantially better DPS.

I will gladly trade a nice cohesive kit (even if not perfect) like PLD's for the messy kit DRK has right now that the only reason is still viable is its potency values. Being balanced only by just having nice damage is the crappiest thing you can imagine thats why DRK is currently the least popular tank despite its huge popularity before