The GrubHub promo problems

[Yahallo]

You would be committing fraud if you did this, because you received the item you paid for (the food).

Nope, no fraud would be committed. If you were unsatisfied with the service, you are allowed to submit a chargeback as long you made a good faith attempt to resolve it with the merchant, in this case Grubhub. Grubhub failed to follow their own terms and conditions for the promotion, which stated the emote was first come first serve, which turned out to be false. Thus, you are to first try to resolve it through Grubhub's customer service. If their customer service was unable to come to a satisfying resolution, you are able to file a chargeback without any risk of committing fraud. This is especially true if the customer service responded in a manner that contradicted the terms and service.

For it to be considered fraud, the intent must be to commit fraud. In this case, there is no intent to commit fraud, but clear dissatisfaction with the service.

As long as there is reasonable doubt in whether the customer was satisfied with the service and the customer made a good faith attempt at resolving it with the merchant first, a chargeback will not be considered fraud.

[SnowVix]

Nope, no fraud would be committed. If you were unsatisfied with the service, you are allowed to submit a chargeback as long you made a good faith attempt to resolve it with the merchant, in this case Grubhub. Grubhub failed to follow their own terms and conditions for the promotion, which stated the emote was first come first serve, which turned out to be false. Thus, you are to first try to resolve it through Grubhub's customer service. If their customer service was unable to come to a satisfying resolution, you are able to file a chargeback without any risk of committing fraud. This is especially true if the customer service responded in a manner that contradicted the terms and service.

For it to be considered fraud, the intent must be to commit fraud. In this case, there is no intent to commit fraud, but clear dissatisfaction with the service.

As long as there is reasonable doubt in whether the customer was satisfied with the service and the customer made a good faith attempt at resolving it with the merchant first, a chargeback will not be considered fraud.

Go ahead and try that when GrubHub sends proof that you received what was paid for back to your bank and they slap you with a fee for instituting a false chargeback.

[Yahallo]

Go ahead and try that when GrubHub sends proof that you received what was paid for back to your bank and they slap you with a fee for instituting a false chargeback.

I can't try because I got the emote; however, I highly doubt that it would be classified as a false chargeback nor would you be charged any fee, even if you were to lose the dispute. This is the exact purpose for what a chargeback is for; when the merchant gave unsatisfactory service and is refusing to correct it. It doesn't matter if you received the food if the service was poor, in which case this is. They violated their own terms and conditions and, in some cases, gave false information through their customer service.

A false chargeback is when you initiate a chargeback with the intent to commit fraud. As long as you can prove that you did not receive satisfactory service, it cannot be considered a false chargeback. You give the reason for why you are initiating the chargeback and in this case it is related to the promo and how Grubhub failed to follow their own terms and conditions as advertised.

By your logic, even if the person delivering the food were to step on the food and spit on it, as long as you received the food, they would be able to deny you a refund and if you started a chargeback you would be hit with a false chargeback. This however, is not the case; if that happened, you would likely win the chargeback. While this situation is not as extreme, it is of the same principle. There are more reasons to chargeback than just not receiving items; a service not performing as expected is one of them.

From the way things are turning out, it is either this or take the L as it looks like SE won't do anything and Grubhub definitely won't do anything.

[Dogempire]

Nope, no fraud would be committed. If you were unsatisfied with the service, you are allowed to submit a chargeback as long you made a good faith attempt to resolve it with the merchant, in this case Grubhub. Grubhub failed to follow their own terms and conditions for the promotion, which stated the emote was first come first serve, which turned out to be false. Thus, you are to first try to resolve it through Grubhub's customer service. If their customer service was unable to come to a satisfying resolution, you are able to file a chargeback without any risk of committing fraud. This is especially true if the customer service responded in a manner that contradicted the terms and service.

For it to be considered fraud, the intent must be to commit fraud. In this case, there is no intent to commit fraud, but clear dissatisfaction with the service.

As long as there is reasonable doubt in whether the customer was satisfied with the service and the customer made a good faith attempt at resolving it with the merchant first, a chargeback will not be considered fraud.

They literally can't break their terms and conditions, have you actually tried reading them? Heck, has anyone who's considered submitting chargebacks tried reading them?

[Dogempire]

Go ahead and try that when GrubHub sends proof that you received what was paid for back to your bank and they slap you with a fee for instituting a false chargeback.

Honestly, don't even bother, it's useless.

I literally work dispute cases for a living and investigate claims like this person is posting and they think they know more, the terms and conditions are more than enough to deny a claim, not to mention that it's ridiculous the item in question is an emote, not an actual product that's been paid for and has a monetary value

[ConcernedPerson]

So.. while I agree that this entire promo is a circus.. I'm not so sure a full blown smear propaganda campaign is the right solution. For right now I'm hoping that showing SE what GH is doing and saying as well as vice versa will result in at least some sort of standard recourse for anyone involved (such as refunds or emotes being awarded for following a claim process).

Yes I did get my emote... I would like everyone else to get theirs as well and give SE the chance to do the right thing and show GH how to not scam people for a quick buck.

C'mon SE... show us some good faith back.

Krotoan, just so you know, I had heard back from SIX different SE reps, all of whom basically told me to pound sand. My first email was on December 17th. Every single one gave me a various version of a canned PR response, telling me to go speak to Grubhub. One simply said I'm sorry you weren't happy with the campaign. Take care. The latest, as of this morning, said that only the first 20,000 people, who got free delivery, qualified to get the emote and no one else (which completely contradicts the lodestone page, by the way).

If SE was honest & transparent, and cared about this at all, I'd think they'd respond with: We're aware of this issue and are working on a solution with Grubhub. Please give us X days. We will be in touch (or: Please contact us again in X days to file your ticket.)

If my six emails from Square Enix over the past six five days are any indication, SE isn't going to do anything to fix this. Like I said in my previous post, I would wait the full two weeks mentioned in the original Grubhub promotion before beginning what you're calling a "smear campaign." By definition, a smear campaign is "a plan to discredit a public figure by making false or dubious accusations." No one's trying to discredit either company with false accusations, so technically it would not be a smear campaign.

I feel bad for you with your pizza emote. If I was one of the winners of what turned out to be a surprise lottery, and I knew about the hundreds or possibly thousands screwed over by GH & SE, I'd be feeling really, really awkward and hesitant about using it. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

[Nekaru_Infitima]

Like I said, to all that didn't get refunded.

Ask for a manager. If they tell you they can't help you, tell them you want to speak to a higher up. If they try to derail you, don't let them, just continue saying you want nothing else except to speak to a manager.

When you get the manager, tell them you only wanted the emote. That you would not have used the service if not for the emote offer, and since the offer turned out to be a scam (what I called it to the guy) you feel cheated (Don't say refund) and like you wasted your money as (again repeat) you would not have ordered anything if you weren't getting the emote.

Continue that type of talking and eventually the manager should offer to refund you. If not, tell them if not for the emote you would have used doordash instead.

Worked for me. Got the full $60 back.

[Yahallo]

They literally can't break their terms and conditions, have you actually tried reading them? Heck, has anyone who's considered submitting chargebacks tried reading them?

They have yet to change it. It still states the same initial terms and conditions of first come first serve on their website. Furthermore, it still wouldn't excuse them from giving unsatisfactory service which is enough of a reason for a chargeback if a good faith attempt at resolving the situation with the merchant (Grubhub) was made and the merchant failed to resolved it.

Honestly, don't even bother, it's useless.

I literally work dispute cases for a living and investigate claims like this person is posting and they think they know more, the terms and conditions are more than enough to deny a claim, not to mention that it's ridiculous the item in question is an emote, not an actual product that's been paid for and has a monetary value

You also stated that the first two sentences of the terms and condition would protect them, the one that stated that it was first come first serve, despite it literally contradicting them, multiple times even when people pointed it out. Rather fatal flaw to make don't you think? Also, you claimed that if the customer didn't pay a chargeback fee, that the bank was footing the bill, when generally it is the merchant that pays the chargeback fee.

The emote is literally the only reason why a number of people were ordering from grubhub to begin with. People were essentially deceived into ordering from Grubhub. If literal deception isn't a good enough reason, then chargebacks might as well not exist. Pretty sure deceptive advertisement counts as false advertisement as well. There are more reasons to chargeback than just not receiving items.

Furthermore, most of the time, people don't actually have to go through with the chargeback. Just the threat of a chargeback will likely work. If multiple people all respond to the Grubhub customer service that they are considering chargebacks, it would put plenty of pressure on Grubhub, likely resulting in refunds because it would likely cost Grubhub less to just refund than to deal with chargebacks.

You keep saying that SE has to do something about it and dealing with Grubhub will not resolve anything. However, SE most likely won't do anything about it so attempting to bring it up to them will just result in them telling you to bring it up with Grubhub, as others have attested. To come to any kind of resolution where you don't just take the L, you have to deal with Grubhub; there is no other way.

[Shhikasan]

Ive issued chargebacks before if you used paypal its easy if you use your card some banks have online services or call them. But first call grubhub if they dont issue your promo code or dont refund you you can issue a chargeback with little to no problems if you do it very little or done non at all.
Ive done it to black desert cause they went back on their word and had no issue from paypal.

[ConcernedPerson]

I kind of wonder what would happen if those hundreds/thousands of players filed a chargeback against Grubhub. I feel like with that amount of people even just threatening Grubhub with a chargeback would put a lot of pressure on them and make them at the very least refund entire orders. They have a lot more to lose if a large number of chargebacks were submitted against them for the same reason.

I'm not really interested in joining the financial debates happening in this thread. Normally, a refund or chargeback would be a way of holding a company accountable. Many people are having success speaking with grubhub supervisors/managers and having their order refunded, so it does seem like that is an option. I am waiting the full two weeks listed in the promo. I may call and try to have it refunded after that, or I may just give up and move on. (Either way, I don't see myself taking part in a digital crossover campaign again.)

I am hesitant to do a chargeback. Goods were received (although they weren't very good, lol, and one wasn't even from a real restaurant, which is even shadier). The promotion itself does have the legal loophole at the end of it. I did read that before I took part in it. It's a standard legal loophole that you'll find in most campaigns of this nature. This is the first and only time I've seen and experienced someone using that loophole to screw over thousands. Technically, because of that loophole, none of us can sue Grubhub or Square Enix. It also makes the credit card chargeback risky, I think, because they can say to your CC that you took part in the campaign knowing that they could change it at any point during it. This is my personal take on it with my own financial knowledge. I'm not going to enter an ongoing debate about it.

I'm more interested in public accountability than I am about the financial side of things. I don't even want the emote anymore. It just symbolizes all of this now. Really, I just want SE to apologize either for their role in this or on behalf of how GH screwed us all over.

I am considering writing a letter directly to Yoshi P at the Japan SE headquarters via old fashioned mail. He has always seemed like such a genuine, kind guy, who is invested in the game and in the players. I'm curious if he actually knows about this situation unfolding here in the states. I have a feeling that if this had happened in Japan, SE would issue a swift rebuke against GH and work to fix it.