Requesting Information on Jobs: Preparing for 1.21

[darkstarpoet1]

Agreed... DP, Did you like my post #403 of this thread? I pretty much put your philosophy in writing

well you already know the opinion i have on jobs as they are being released. a white mage is just a conjurer with 5 new abilities they cannot cross class.

[Rydin]

well you already know the opinion i have on jobs as they are being released. a white mage is just a conjurer with 5 new abilities they cannot cross class.

Yea... a WHM has the abilities of a level 60 CNJ with the stats of a level 50 CNJ

[Mychael]

Yea... a WHM has the abilities of a level 60 CNJ with the stats of a level 50 CNJ

This would make sense if we got all five abilities at R50. For those who are already R50 it will feel like you're gaining more levels. But for those who are <30, it will be more like the old guild marks, where you have to unlock certain abilities every 5 levels before you can use them..

Just sayin <3

And thank god these quests won't just be spamming the same levequest for more guild marks. T_T

[Rydin]

This would make sense if we got all five abilities at R50. For those who are already R50 it will feel like you're gaining more levels. But for those who are <30, it will be more like the old guild marks, where you have to unlock certain abilities every 5 levels before you can use them..

Just sayin <3

And thank god these quests won't just be spamming the same levequest for more guild marks. T_T

I never looked at it from that point of view (of someone actually ranking up and unlocking jobs at 30)
you're right...
People would hate me if I was Yoshi.,.. but I would have waited until I had 2 contrasting jobs for each class before releasing them

Even if that means "Wait for 2.0"

[Mychael]

I never looked at it from that point of view (of someone actually ranking up and unlocking jobs at 30)
you're right...
People would hate me if I was Yoshi.,.. but I would have waited until I had 2 contrasting jobs for each class before releasing them

Even if that means "Wait for 2.0"

Yeah.. the other problem that concerns me is people trying to level. What if one of the more useful spells/abilities is R30 or 35?

It'll be no big deal to us current players, because we've gone how long now without them. But when the "fresh" servers happen with 2.0, I'm afraid that some skills might be required (by the community)--like in XI, if you got to whatever level without the scroll for an important spell, some people might complain until you just get a rep.

After the new players make their own servers/expectations, will people expect someone to leave after X level, level another job to 15, do the job quests, and then level more?

Something I liked about XIV was that even though having other jobs leveled was beneficial, I wouldn't get kicked for not leveling a job I hated (i.e. I didn't like BLM in XI, but WHM was my main. ...to be honest I stayed /anon with BLM10 until I hit WHM30 and unlocked SMN, then WHM/SMN ftw) or working my butt off for a scroll (Erase, anyone?). Also, in XIV there was no "YOU DON'T HAVE THIS?! WTF!" like when a WHM25 joined up without Cure II in XI. We also don't have to roll our eyes and ask people to leave when they don't have a scroll of Haste.

Not that I think this is an imminent issue, but I'm sure you guys that read the forums know that I (over)think of random sh** like this. >.>

[darkstarpoet1]

Yeah.. the other problem that concerns me is people trying to level. What if one of the more useful spells/abilities is R30 or 35?

It'll be no big deal to us current players, because we've gone how long now without them. But when the "fresh" servers happen with 2.0, I'm afraid that some skills might be required (by the community)--like in XI, if you got to whatever level without the scroll for an important spell, some people might complain until you just get a rep.

After the new players make their own servers/expectations, will people expect someone to leave after X level, level another job to 15, do the job quests, and then level more?

Something I liked about XIV was that even though having other jobs leveled was beneficial, I wouldn't get kicked for not leveling a job I hated (i.e. I didn't like BLM in XI, but WHM was my main. To be honest I stayed /anon with BLM10 until I hit WHM30 and unlocked SMN, then WHM/SMN ftw). Also, in XIV there was no "YOU DON'T HAVE THIS?! WTF!" like when a WHM25 joined up without Cure II in XI. We also don't have to roll our eyes and ask people to leave when they don't have a scroll of Haste.

Not that I think this is an imminent issue, but I'm sure you guys that read the forums know that I (over)think of random sh** like this. >.>

now this one i can agree with. the only thing is say you hit 30 con in an exp party i don't see it coming down to you have to leave to get that ability for white mage to rejoin the party. the reason being is in exp parties the mobs die so fast and sp comes so quickly even just running class abilities i don't see that one ability making or breaking an exp party.

granted, if you ran con up to 50 and tried to join a high level event like ifrit i could see people wanting the main healer to have the white mage quests completed for those scenarios.

[Mychael]

now this one i can agree with. the only thing is say you hit 30 con in an exp party i don't see it coming down to you have to leave to get that ability for white mage to rejoin the party. the reason being is in exp parties the mobs die so fast and sp comes so quickly even just running class abilities i don't see that one ability making or breaking an exp party.

granted, if you ran con up to 50 and tried to join a high level event like ifrit i could see people wanting the main healer to have the white mage quests completed for those scenarios.

Yeah like I said it's not a huge issue. It's just that for all of us, we do a chain of quests, in order. For new people, I'm afraid it will be more like... level 25-35, stop to get new spells, repeat. It was no big deal in XI because everything was slower, but in XI it will feel stupid to stop just to get a skill. Admittedly, I don't see any reason to need any new skills for exp parties, but that's why I said it would be more of an issue for thew newcomers--they won't have the bias of "we didn't ever need them before." But for some--invincible and benediction, especially--I could see it happening, even with us. Two less wipes/deaths, sounds worth it--especially since I don't anticipate any two hour recasts coming (though it could happen).

P.S. Sorry! >,< I've edited this post like a thousand times.

no they won't, but it's really nothing more than getting an ability while doing a class quest while ranking up. just use conjurer for example the jobs quests for getting the abilities is nothing more than having a conjurer quest at rank 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 and the conjurer itself getting the ability.

i wasn't saying they were wrong, but just more of pointing out those quests would have been just as well put in as additional class quests since a white mage is just a conjurer with additional class specific abilities. there's no change in what it does at all since being a healer is all a conjurer does.

I agree with you there. The only reason I think SE chose to give us these jobs (instead of just adding the skills to the class quests) is because these will be skills that future classes cannot use. If Conjurer gets summoner (bad example probably), then SMN won't get Esuna, Benediction, or Regen. If they were just CNJ quests, then the future SMNs would b*tch about "WHY DIDN'T I GET THESE?!" All I was saying was that wheras Rydin had mentioned that the additional abilities would be like leveling further as whatever class, that it wouldn't even have that lustre for new players. It'll be part of the levelling process, not an additional bonus.

[darkstarpoet1]

This would make sense if we got all five abilities at R50. For those who are already R50 it will feel like you're gaining more levels. But for those who are <30, it will be more like the old guild marks, where you have to unlock certain abilities every 5 levels before you can use them..

Just sayin <3

And thank god these quests won't just be spamming the same levequest for more guild marks. T_T

but what we are saying is that with white mage, the only job for conjurer, it is doing the exact same job as a conjurer does. it is going to be the main healer in party. if a conjurer had 2 jobs it turned into, but did 2 different things as a class then it could be considered specializing. like rydin pointed out earlier.

if thm did dot's and nukes then black mage would specialize it at nuking and green mage would be for dot's
conjurer if it did debuffs and healing then it could have 2 jobs it specializes.

the problem is they removed the secondary options from the classes for the jobs to specialize in with the ability changes last patch. to me the classes should be more of do the beginnings of what the jobs do, but not as well and the jobs make them go in a specific route. instead the classes are the exact same thing as the job is, but with 5 less abilities.

[Rydin]

but what we are saying is that with white mage, the only job for conjurer, it is doing the exact same job as a conjurer does. it is going to be the main healer in party. if a conjurer had 2 jobs it turned into, but did 2 different things as a class then it could be considered specializing. like rydin pointed out earlier.

if thm did dot's and nukes then black mage would specialize it at nuking and green mage would be for dot's
conjurer if it did debuffs and healing then it could have 2 jobs it specializes.

the problem is they removed the secondary options from the classes for the jobs to specialize in with the ability changes last patch. to me the classes should be more of do the beginnings of what the jobs do, but not as well and the jobs make them go in a specific route. instead the classes are the exact same thing as the job is, but with 5 less abilities.

he is agreeing with us more or less... he's just saying for someone ranking up... they wont even get the satisfaction of getting all 5 abilities at once....
but the point is, yea... WHM is a CNJ and CNJ has always been a white mage
the two are not job/class... they are synonymous

[darkstarpoet1]

he is agreeing with us more or less... he's just saying for someone ranking up... they wont even get the satisfaction of getting all 5 abilities at once....
but the point is, yea... WHM is a CNJ and CNJ has always been a white mage
the two are not job/class... they are synonymous

no they won't, but it's really nothing more than getting an ability while doing a class quest while ranking up. just use conjurer for example the jobs quests for getting the abilities is nothing more than having a conjurer quest at rank 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 and the conjurer itself getting the ability.

i wasn't saying they were wrong, but just more of pointing out those quests would have been just as well put in as additional class quests since a white mage is just a conjurer with additional class specific abilities. there's no change in what it does at all since being a healer is all a conjurer does.