6.0 Healer Feedback Thread

[Maxilor]

I've only played SGE so far. I figured I'd spend my first day seeing how far I could level and see if I like it and I got it to level 80.

I can only give first impressions so far, because it's still the honeymoon period and it's too early to rate it in relation to what my pre-6.0 concerns have been.

I like how SGE heals and I have enjoyed the experience thus far.
Positives I note:
- I feel encouraged to actually shield heal. Compared to 5.0 SCH where you could heal more efficiently with your oGCD's. So far, my oGCD's haven't felt like enough and I can use my shields to help
- Being able to "detonate" shields is a good idea, Pepsis is better than Emergency Tactics because of this. Emergency Tactics + Succor mean your co-healer might have topped off the party members by the time you've finished the maneuver and it feels wasted.
- I like the Eukrasia mechanic, I like being able to augment abilities, it's something I liked about FFXI SCH and something I liked about old Dark Knight (and miss).
- How Eukrasia Prognosis/Diagnosis works is great for mobility and incentives me to use it over a non-Eukrasia one
- I like how Toxicon is built, it's another shield incentive, and it doesn't feel wasted.
- I like there's multiple DPS abilities, the AoE game is pretty good and has made trash pulls more engaging than SCH's Art of War spam.
- I've felt busier so far.

A few things I would improve on so far:
- The AoE's don't feel like they flow well into each other. I feel like Toxicon might work better as an oGCD.
- Maybe increase the AoE range of some DPS abilities...it's less of a problem in dungeons, but I guess this is a product of me doing FATEs and Bozja/Zadnor to level it.
- There still Dosis spamming

Where I still have concerns:
- How it will handle it feel when the honeymoon period is over and how healer downtime feels, how big it is a SGE and how make SGE managed to break it up. This is a "time will tell" thing, because this is dependent on the stat squish and getting it into content and getting over the period of "ooh shiny shiny" and getting better at playing the job.


Regardless, I definitely like it as a healer, so they are positive first impressions. I'll no doubt come back when I've had more than a day with it.

I agree with everything but Toxicon. I feel like it's a waste most of the time outside of heavy movement fights. As said in another thread, it's built up like Afflatus Misery but in reality it's just Ruin II with net neutral dps.

I just feel like i'm missing something about it, because I don't see why I would use it over Dosis for Single Target (outside of heavy movement) or Dyskrasia for AOE.

[Saefinn]

I agree with everything but Toxicon. I feel like it's a waste most of the time outside of heavy movement fights. As said in another thread, it's built up like Afflatus Misery but in reality it's just Ruin II with net neutral dps.

I just feel like i'm missing something about it, because I don't see why I would use it over Dosis for Single Target (outside of heavy movement) or Dyskrasia for AOE.

My "waste" comment is more to the using a shield to get it. But I agree with you, I was going to make a comment about how it has no benefit over Dosis as I have before when looking at the tooltips, but my mentioning of making Toxicon an oGCD would be a solution.

I think the way to address is either:
- Make Toxicon more powerful for the first target to benefit single target use
- Make a single target equivalent of Toxicon that is advantageous over Dosis
- Make it an oGCD so you can weave it.

IMHO I think having it as an oGCD would help it flow better at the same time.

[Sylve]

I agree with everything but Toxicon. I feel like it's a waste most of the time outside of heavy movement fights. As said in another thread, it's built up like Afflatus Misery but in reality it's just Ruin II with net neutral dps.

I just feel like i'm missing something about it, because I don't see why I would use it over Dosis for Single Target (outside of heavy movement) or Dyskrasia for AOE.

It costs no MP for the same potency with no cast time. While its primary benefit is that it can basically keep your DPS flowing while moving without needing anything other than a shield to break, A secondary benefit to its nature of being free means it can be used as an MP management tool by substituting Dosis for Toxikons when you cap your Adderstings.

I'm not sure how i'd feel about it being an oGCD. I quite enjoy the E-Diag -> Toxikon rotation for AoE pulls with Dyskrasia sprinked during crit Diags. It feels like a reward for healing the tank instead of just letting them get low and trying to burst them back with Adders. In my experience so far (84) its been easier to keep the tank alive without overusing cooldowns and Adders using E-Diag/Toxikon than spamming Dyskrasia.

[Jallun]

It costs no MP for the same potency with no cast time. While its primary benefit is that it can basically keep your DPS flowing while moving without needing anything other than a shield to break, A secondary benefit to its nature of being free means it can be used as an MP management tool by substituting Dosis for Toxikons when you cap your Adderstings.

This is incorrect. To get to use Toxicon you need Eukrasia Diagnosis to break; said spell costs 900 MP to use and if it doesn't break you don't get Toxicon for that MP usage. In addition, it takes two GCDs to generate and use one Toxicon; divide the potency by 2 to get its' true potency.

On-topic, Sage is feeling quite nice (more DPS options than the other healers if I'm not mistaken) though I have some problems with it as well, namely the typical trait of giving healers PB-AoE spells which puts them at risk of telegraphed attacks targeted at tanks and Toxicon being too weak to justify its' use.

[KDSilver]

Sage is feeling quite nice (more DPS options than the other healers if I'm not mistaken)

Same as Scholar.

Broil = Dosis
Bioysis = Eucrasian Dosis
Phlegma = Energy Drain
Toxicon = Ruin II
Dykrasia = Art of War

(of course, each spell don't have the very same effect, but that's their equivalent).
People called Sage having more dps option because Square introduced it as the "officialy recognized healer who has dps and healing working together", but he doesn't have more dps option.

We could argue about AST as well... (but bigger cooldown on it, and share healing on its dps action)

Now that Earthy Star got bigger and more potency, minor arcana being reworked and macrocosmos...

Fall Malefic, Comust II, Gravity II, Earthly Star, Minor Arcana, macrocosmos.

[Jallun]

Same as Scholar.

Broil = Dosis
Bioysis = Eucrasian Dosis
Phlegma = Energy Drain
Toxicon = Ruin II
Dykrasia = Art of War

Fair point, only Phelgma and Toxicon are AOE (although Toxicon is a weak one for the effort acquiring its' resource) whereas the two you've put with them are single target.

[RinaShinomiya]

Broil = Dosis
Bioysis = Eucrasian Dosis
Phlegma = Energy Drain
Toxicon = Ruin II
Dykrasia = Art of War

You forgot Pneuma, Sage has more and tbh if the SCH Job gauges weren't so clunckily designed we wouldn't even need ED as a button.

[Saefinn]

Same as Scholar.

Broil = Dosis
Bioysis = Eucrasian Dosis
Phlegma = Energy Drain
Toxicon = Ruin II
Dykrasia = Art of War

(of course, each spell don't have the very same effect, but that's their equivalent).
People called Sage having more dps option because Square introduced it as the "officialy recognized healer who has dps and healing working together", but he doesn't have more dps option.

There are a few differences here that I think help. The main one is that it doesn't feel like a single button spam, I mean there is some but not to the same extent. It's much better for AoE but less so for single target.

Eucrasian Dosis is Biolysis. But it has an extra step. It's 2 button presses. 4.0 SCH used to do 2 button presses for their main DoTs, Bio + Miasma. It's a seemingly small difference but it affects how its flow feels.

Toxicon is like Ruin II in that it has a benefit to mobility. Toxicon comes with an AoE benefit too. But it is tied to a separate mechanic unlike Ruin II and affects your healing style to in order to build up your Addersting. So I think this mechanic tricks the brain into it feeling like a 3 step process, because you have to Eukrasia -> Eukrasian Diagnosis -> [Shields breaks] -> Toxicon. Or you do it several times and then dump your stacked Toxicon. However, when it comes to single target, this is where Toxicon starts to be a potential DPS loss. And this is feedback we've given, because we like using Toxicon. If in the single target fight if the incoming damage is consistent enough then Toxicon gets more use.

Dyskrasia is Art of War for sure, but it's less offensive in that it is supplemented by extra AoE's. SCH just gets 1 AoE, SGE gets multiple.

Dosis is Broil for sure.

Phlegma - I can see why you put it as an equivalent to Energy Drain, but again this has a benefit to an AoE rotation and this isn't dependent on Aetherflow, which may end up reserved for oGCD heals depending on the situation or fight. And it's on the GCD.

Then of course, Pneuma, which has no SCH equivalent.

I think SGE DPS shines the most during AoE situations. For single target, it needs some adjustment.

So far my experience has been that I am not spamming Dosis or Dyskrasia as much as I do with Broil or Art of War. I am pressing more buttons and thus it feels busier.

I think it is a better experience. I think one still in need of improving, but it so far has been enough to keep it from being monotonous and feels like a step in the right direction.

[rewd]

There are a few differences here that I think help. The main one is that it doesn't feel like a single button spam, I mean there is some but not to the same extent. It's much better for AoE but less so for single target.

Eucrasian Dosis is Biolysis. But it has an extra step. It's 2 button presses. 4.0 SCH used to do 2 button presses for their main DoTs, Bio + Miasma. It's a seemingly small difference but it affects how its flow feels.

Toxicon is like Ruin II in that it has a benefit to mobility. Toxicon comes with an AoE benefit too. But it is tied to a separate mechanic unlike Ruin II and affects your healing style to in order to build up your Addersting. So I think this mechanic tricks the brain into it feeling like a 3 step process, because you have to Eukrasia -> Eukrasian Diagnosis -> [Shields breaks] -> Toxicon. Or you do it several times and then dump your stacked Toxicon. However, when it comes to single target, this is where Toxicon starts to be a potential DPS loss. And this is feedback we've given, because we like using Toxicon. If in the single target fight if the incoming damage is consistent enough then Toxicon gets more use.

Dyskrasia is Art of War for sure, but it's less offensive in that it is supplemented by extra AoE's. SCH just gets 1 AoE, SGE gets multiple.

Dosis is Broil for sure.

Phlegma - I can see why you put it as an equivalent to Energy Drain, but again this has a benefit to an AoE rotation and this isn't dependent on Aetherflow, which may end up reserved for oGCD heals depending on the situation or fight. And it's on the GCD.

Then of course, Pneuma, which has no SCH equivalent.

I think SGE DPS shines the most during AoE situations. For single target, it needs some adjustment.

So far my experience has been that I am not spamming Dosis or Dyskrasia as much as I do with Broil or Art of War. I am pressing more buttons and thus it feels busier.

I think it is a better experience. I think one still in need of improving, but it so far has been enough to keep it from being monotonous and feels like a step in the right direction.

The issue with Sage is that the job always "feels like" and not "it is like". It feels busy, but it isn't busy. It feels like it has a damage rotation, but it actually has not. Toxicon/Addersting is such a painful noob trap à la Freecure with so many players spamming shields (because I'm a ~shield healer~) to fish for close to irrelevant Toxicons. Hell, Astrologian of all people feels like it has a more impactful AoE with Star being more powerful than Phlegma and Lord of Crowns, if you are lucky enough to get it. Not to mention WHM.

When a healer that adheres to the usual dull playstyle also has to trick you into thinking it plays differently/is busy, there is a problem.

[Saefinn]

The issue with Sage is that the job always "feels like" and not "it is like". It feels busy, but it isn't busy. It feels like it has a damage rotation, but it actually has not. Toxicon/Addersting is such a painful noob trap à la Freecure with so many players spamming shields (because I'm a ~shield healer~) to fish for close to irrelevant Toxicons. Hell, Astrologian of all people feels like it has a more impactful AoE with Star being more powerful than Phlegma and Lord of Crowns, if you are lucky enough to get it. Not to mention WHM.

When a healer that adheres to the usual dull playstyle also has to trick you into thinking it plays differently/is busy, there is a problem.

For sure I would like more complexity.
But how a job feels can make a big difference. DNC is dead simple but it feels good. RDM is dead simple but it feels good. DNC has a low personal DPS but when you do a Technical Step breaking 200,000 damage? It feels strong and I actually think it's a good way of keeping things balanced without feeling like a wet noodle. I guess this was their intention with Earthly Star too.

For SGE, however, my general issues with SCH have been over the monotony of a Broil/Art of War spam and how its healing abilities flow and how they don't always work together. But I actually like the healing tools and functionality SCH has to offer. Another gripe has been that I favour shield healing and for SCH it has ended up being a secondary focus in 5.0. One of my other gripes with SCH's kit (and any healer kit) is how little I would get to use the tools at my disposal, which is an issue with how content is balanced against the available skills. That latter issue may still end up presenting itself, I think it's too early for more to fully judge that one and if it does present itself...at least I am going to have a better time with it than SCH or WHM.

However, how the job flows and feels despite being practically functionally identical to SCH actually makes it enjoyable when SCH isn't. One thing I have referred to SGE is as a SCH with QoL changes or "what 5.0 SCH should have been".

But the main benefits I am finding is that:
- I am shield healing more
- I am finding the healing kit flows with itself better
- I am finding QoL in things like Pepsis over Emergency Tactics
- I am finding there is some breakage of the monotony of a single button spam

And when you think about it, those are all things I've asked for. DPS complexity is also something I've asked for, but they've pretty much said they're not going to do that and I was willing to compromise at "make it enjoyable". If my current experience of SGE remains consistent then they will have achieved that.

And to note: on having a DPS rotation as healer, I've generally been against the idea of a rotation, but a supporter or more options. A rotation can still cause people to tunnel vision and it doesn't feel good having to break a rotation to take care of healing. But a monotonous single button spam also can cause people to tunnel vision.