Thread: 6.0 Healer Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's not a waste if you get mana back. Weave it in and get some mana. It's not the best design, sure, but there's still no reason to go OOM on it. Overheal is only a big issue if you're losing dps over it, but oGCD's are free.

Yes I suppose, but every fiber of my being rebels against wasted resources like healing someone at full health.

Originally Posted by Maxilor

That would depend on how many targets there was. I'm at work so I can't do the quick math, but how many targets would it take for Dyskrasia to do more DPS than Toxicon?

Reminder that Toxicon is 300 Potency to first target and 50% less to all others...so 300 + 150 for each extra target.

Dyskrasia is 160 to everyone no matter what.

I figured I probably should have just done the math to post the numbers, but because Dyskrasia has more potency than the 50% all others of Toxicon, there's a break even point:

15 target Toxicon = 300 potency for first target + 150 potency for 14 targets for 2400 total
15 target Dyskrasia = 160 * 15 = 2400 total

In other words, less than 15 targets Toxicon is always better if you have a charge of it. After that, Dyskrasia edges ahead 10 potency per additional target. Granted, how often do you have 15+ mob pulls? Just don't think about it and use Toxicon if you have it in AoE. Besides, even though in theory you could do more absolute DPS by ignoring Toxicon completely at 16+ mobs, you'd probably benefit from the MP savings if you're already using Eukrasian Diagnosis to survive such a pull.

Note: the math does change at level 82
Toxicon II = 330 primary, 165 additional
Dyskrasia II = 170 all

Toxicon II: 330 + 32 * 165 = 5610
Dyskrasia II: 33 * 170 = 5610

For that case, you'd need 33 targets to break even. (lol, does that ever happen?)

My point still stands, Toxicon edges out Dyskrasia in virtually all AoE situations assuming you aren't casting Eukrasian Diagnosis for the sole purpose of triggering Toxicon.

If you're wondering, in 2 GCDs against just 2 targets (to try to benefit Toxicon II), DPS-wise (ignoring the effect on healing):

Eukrasion Diagnosis + Toxicon II = 495 total potency for damage
Dyskrasia II x2 = 680 total potency

Now, obviously, if you don't have any OGCDs to heal with and must use a GCD on healing, Eukrasian Diagnosis -> Toxicon in an AoE setup at least gives you a partial "refund" in terms of DPS lost to healing vs. just tossing out more Dyskrasias with this effect being more noticeable with fewer targets. Additionally, using Toxicon in such situations where you had to use Eukrasian Diagnosis to cover a lack of available OGCD heals also saves you the 400 MP that Dyskrasia would have cost if you had ignored Toxicon completely.

But that only applies to the up to three Toxikons you can get from downtime shielding.
The moment you put a E. Diagnosis on the Tank during the pull jsut for toxikon, it starts to loose out quickly to dyskrasia, as you loose a full GCD of damage to get that addersting stack.

Originally Posted by Sani2341

But that only applies to the up to three Toxikons you can get from downtime shielding.
The moment you put a E. Diagnosis on the Tank during the pull jsut for toxikon, it starts to loose out quickly to dyskrasia, as you loose a full GCD of damage to get that addersting stack.

This is true as well, but thank you -BlueGreen- for doing the math.

So we essentially take all Dyskrasia's in those calculations and double them to account for the extra GCD of damage. If my 1st grade math skills are not mistaken.

So essentially outside of any saved up Toxicon stacks you already have, Dyskrasia would have more Damage Per Second assuming the Tank does not need any healing outside of OGCD heals.

So overall I quite like Astro, but it does have some rather glaring issues in the new version. Macrocosmos is awesome, Fall Malefic and Gravity 2 are quite cool-looking and fairly solid even if Gravity 2 wasn't much of a potency increase. Divination not needing seals anymore is amazing, and I noticed I don't lose seals upon dying which is great, though Astrodyne itself doesn't feel good. The last bonus feels like a waste since you either lose out on damage cards because you have to hold them to save the astrodyne or you have to pop it as soon as you get all 3 which feels like a waste as well. The speed buff doesn't feel like it has much of an impact since astro heals / malefic-gravity-spam are such fast casting anyway that I didn't notice it doing anything at all, and light-speed can completely remove cast times if necessary, so the only thing I've really been able to use it for is mana regen in rough times when Lucid Dreaming isn't enough like if you have to raise a bunch or something like that, so overall it doesn't feel that great.

I do have some minor gripe over the new Lord / Lady. Lord is ok as a quick burst of damage, but Lady, while not being completely useless, just being a Helios clone with RNG stapled to it feels bad when we have so many good AoE oGCD heals. Not being able to prepare it ahead of combat like you can with their regular-card cousins is annoying and shouldn't be a thing, but I think Lady doesn't have enough oomph to make up for the RNG, when Celestial Opposition, the Aspected Helios clone, doesn't have to deal with the RNG alongside the 1-minute cooldown.

I think that if they plan on keeping the RNG, they should crank up the potency (or lower the cooldown, unsure which would be better, probably potency since lowering the cooldown would affect Lord too) so that Lady isn't just a Helios clone, but worse because of the 50/50 shot you'll get it compared to its Celestial Opposition / Aspected Helios version, actually make it worth using with our wide variety of other oGCD heals. Or it could be nice if, since it needs two buttons like draw / play, if they instead worked more like Horoscope, Earthly Star, and Macrocosmos, where you press one to 'pick' which of the two cards you draw, with both sharing a cooldown and hitting it again plays the card like how those three abilities have a "press once to prime, press twice to detonate" mechanic, preferably with it able to keep track of the cooldown in the background like those other skills where the cooldown ticks down even as you wait to detonate them.



TL;DR: The Arcana Lady card doesn't feel good to use. It's just a Helios clone that requires RNG while its Aspected Helios cousin doesn't. Either get rid of the RNG somehow, merge them sort of like Assize, or make it more potent to be worth using alongside our other, much stronger, non-RNG-dependant options, so that it might be worth holding onto if needed. Lord is ok, since we don't have much damage competition in our kit.

Astrodyne doesn't feel impactful in the slightest, or at least its impact is very difficult to actually use, and is too reliant on RNG now that RNG-reducing abilities like Sleeve Draw and multi-charge redraw are gone, plus once you get 3 seals you are forced to hold your cards as there's no way to "burn" them in a way that doesn't give seals so that you don't mess up your seal combo. That RNG can mean the "cooldown" of a 3-seal can be anywhere from 120 seconds to several minutes if luck isn't on your side. The buffs also don't feel very powerful, I didn't notice the speed buff doing anything because our cast times are already short when not using Lightspeed, and mostly used it so far for mana in a pinch but otherwise just sat there not being used very often because it was hard to get a 3-seal right as a Divination lined up. So overall it feels just...meh. It doesn't feel very strong and the RNG makes it difficult to use at full power even then. It just feels like it's "just there" rather than a tool you can really rely on, same with the Crown cards. They're useful when they come up but in no way can you reliably use them.

The real reason for Toxikon is movement and weaving, not damage. You can assume that the only time you're using E.Diagnosis is when that throughput or shield is absolutely necessary, which means we can ignore the damage loss and assume we're not getting many stacks of it to begin with. Compared to using Ruin II in the same situations it's more overall DPS when that utility is useful, but obviously the problem is the number of stacks you get over an encounter is extremely limited. You're not going to be able to rely on that tool consistently, which is offset by it effectively being loseless for the only stacks you would require out of it in the first place. From that view, it's niche, but good within that niche. Personally I think we'd rate the value of Ruin II higher because it's a much better progression tool but numerically Toxikon can compete against it just fine, and Sage has other tools that fit the same purpose. Really what would be appreciated is having a cooldown or two give out a stack for free, like Rhizomata and Zoe, or perhaps Icarus.