Monk Positionals 6.0

[Andy_T93]

Yes, there is a chance, however for players who have played Monk for an extended period of time, they should be able to have a good grasp on how the changes will feel to play. Most were content with losing 2 positionals and were willing to give the job a try, but then even more get removed. They really should have tested the waters by keeping it at the 2 positionals first and then adjust from there.

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree with you I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop maining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

[Yokubo]

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

lol. Could you imagine a day when they remove Greased Lightning? Oh wait....

[wereotter]

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

The thing is there, they already announced that in the fan fest stream that they'd be removing the positional requirements on twin snakes and true strike, and this was done to enable masterful blitz to work more smoothly. Speaking for myself, I didn't love the removal of the requirements but was okay with it since it still kept the core of the job relatively in tact, and it could be seen to make the job more accessible to more players, since the job would go from 6 positional requirements to 4. But now they've gone from 6 requirements to 2, which has removed a big part of the job's classic identity it's had since 2.0.

To put it in perspective here's the number of skils with requirements by melee job:
DRG : 3
NIN : 3
SAM : 2
RPR : 2
MNK : 2

One of ninja's requirements is on Trick Attack, so now dragoon is the positional king, and it still has only half of what monk had just 24 hours ago. Leaving monk at 4 skills that require a position would have been fine, and a concession to make it seem less intimidating for more players to try out.

The real thing is while monk might have seemed intimidating for its positional requirements, it also just didn't have the draw of exciting skills like jumps, iajutsu, and ninjutsu like other jobs had. Monk has been using its same 6 skill rotation and generic OGCD skills for 7 years now. Masterful blitz is a move in the right direction, but I don't think it's warranted all the other cuts the job got in order to accommodate it.

[Jirah]

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

By the lgoic BLM should be way overdo for a rework as it is eclipsed by RDM, logically does popularity make any sence in terms of watering down a job? no it never does as popualr objects or profitables ones are never of value. Mcdonlds serves 1 billion ppl but il still dine at a mom and pop shop despite "not being popular"

[Ezzeloharr]

Just wanted to chime in to voice my disappointment and disagreement with the removal of additional positional vis-à-vis what was presented during the media tour. Please reconsider this change!

[ssunny2008]

But there is equal chance that they will love and people will flock to it, so again lets stop making up hypotheticals to support our stance

That´s a vague statement. Of course noone knows what´s going to happen. But in fact the most ppl who showed up at any time have been in casuals. And casuals in final look like the following:

- They do play any class, but don´t put much efford into them. They swap as they want and mostly prefer QoL classes over real gameplay. Which last in the masses of DNC or healer / RDM in content like bodzja since they know they´re going to die and can rezz easily.
- They don´t play the endgame (savage content)... the only content where positionals on MNK need to be played.
- They do play EX content, but even there they don´t perform really well.
- They have no clue about good / bad or balancing, since they just don´t care and want to be insane.

Maybe they´ll like the new MNK, they´ll atleast try it, for sure. But i´m convinced that they´ll never main or try to master it. They play the game for other reasons than "having a mainclass and compete in the endgame". It´s more about "pewpew, glam and social features". That´s why any gaming company should give much about feedback from casuals when we talk about gameplay.

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals.

1st it was being unable to play positionals, so we got true north and RoE.
2nd it was caused by greased lightning, so we got TK and anatman.
3rd it was GL again, so they got ride of it.
Now it´s positionals again, so they get ride of it.

Does it make sense that the whole class is an issue in itself? I say no!

Just because a class is the least played, doesn´t mean it´s a bad one. Ppl claim BLM to be perfect, but there are not more BLM players than MNK players. On is the most static and one the class with the highest mobility and both of them get highly rewarded or punished for playing well / doing mistakes. Any other classes are just way easier to play or in case of SAM / DNC self-carry classes where you´re able to perform quite bad but still having a decent output.

So far, it´s nothing but BS to get ride of MNK positionals and i promise that the player on MNK won´t grow. If anything, it´ll probably get worse since all the MNK mains got slapped into their face meanwhile the mighty casuals will always fall back on easier and stronger classes. The new braindead SMN will finish the holy braindead relationship between melees, ranges and caster. MNK will be lost in space.

[Andy_T93]

That´s a vague statement. Of course noone knows what´s going to happen. But in fact the most ppl who showed up at any time have been in casuals. And casuals in final look like the following:

- They do play any class, but don´t put much efford into them. They swap as they want and mostly prefer QoL classes over real gameplay. Which last in the masses of DNC or healer / RDM in content like bodzja since they know they´re going to die and can rezz easily.
- They don´t play the endgame (savage content)... the only content where positionals on MNK need to be played.
- They do play EX content, but even there they don´t perform really well.
- They have no clue about good / bad or balancing, since they just don´t care and want to be insane.

Maybe they´ll like the new MNK, they´ll atleast try it, for sure. But i´m convinced that they´ll never main or try to master it. They play the game for other reasons than "having a mainclass and compete in the endgame". It´s more about "pewpew, glam and social features". That´s why any gaming company should give much about feedback from casuals when we talk about gameplay.

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

[Yokubo]

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

Well Square Enix has done well keeping the game new player friendly and the community itself has done quite well to maintain that reputation. I can understand that for the casual players, the game isn't fun if you have people barking at you that you aren't "playing your class properly". In most content you can get by painstakingly if a member is doing severely less than they should (For worst case scenario).

It would be nice to know that Square Enix does have its eye on the other players though trying to make sure that they can enjoy themselves too. And frankly, it seems to me that at this point they've sorta taken sides with the casuals trying to make Monk more freely enjoyable to the casual players without worrying that they're once again "playing their class properly". Like the players who aren't landing positionals aren't the ones complaining that they don't do enough DPS, so why bother fixing the potency to cater to them if it isn't an issue to them?

[wereotter]

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

Based on this game?

They do both. They created ultimate raids to keep the top 10% of players happy (based off what percentage of players have actually cleared them) AND they add in content for casual players. It's not a zero sum game, they can do both. They can have complex and busy jobs to appeal to players who enjoy that AND they can have simpler jobs to satisfy those players. And have already shown they can reward players with a higher damage ceiling for playing a complex job well. The problem comes when they remove what some players enjoy so that there's nothing for them.

Not every job is ever going to appeal to every player, nor should they. The variety of jobs and being able to play them all on the same character is exactly why they should have jobs made to appeal to all sorts of players. Even if one job (or race or piece of content) only appeals to 10% of players, that's not a reason to remove it or change it so entirely as to no longer appeal to its audience only to hook the audience you already have.