Predict the endwalker healing meta!

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Such a terrible design that they're making every other healer more in line with it in Endwalker!

1.5 weaving is fine.
constantly having play draw, having to match cards, having to have separate seals, having to upgrade cards and heal same time is very intense and not fun to play

[Nizzi]

1.5 weaving is fine.
constantly having play draw, having to match cards, having to have separate seals, having to upgrade cards and heal same time is very intense and not fun to play

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Sunako]

AST SCH

If not begin of the expansion, definitely sooner or later.

[ty_taurus]

I realize now that ff14 community when they can’t understand someone else’s opinion or thought process defaults to calling someone bait. I guess it’s just a form of lack of understanding or mental exposure to understand.

Except it's not an opinion because you speak in absolutes. To paraphrase: "AST won't be meta over WHM because it is boring and unfun." You do this all the time where you parade around opinions and misinformation as gospel truth that the rest of us aren't enlightened enough to understand, and that's why you're always met with people claiming "bait." These statements are so far from reality that they cannot be perceived as legitimate opinions.

First and foremost "boring" is a incredibly odd choice even by your own description. You blamed the cards and divination for why AST is unfun, and someone who was bothered by those specific aspects wouldn't use the word "boring" because it doesn't make sense in that context. The words you'd actually use if those aspects of the job bothered you would be things like "confusing," "hectic," or "frustrating." "Boring" implies that something is too repetitive or slow--that you have difficulty staying focused as there's not enough to engage with in some meaningful fashion, which is not the kind of experience the card system would elicit in someone who wouldn't like it.

Next, "Meta" is used in reference to raiding, not popularity. WHM will likely always be the most popular healer in numbers because it's the most accessible healer at level 1, it's easy to play, it's a classic Final Fantasy job where SCH and especially AST are more niche, and it's ultimately good enough to clear anything despite every other healer having better support and better healing. This is not meta. WHM has not been meta in over 4 years. This isn't news. It's based on real information from actual people clearing content.

That's not to say that no one can't still like WHM. Some people like the aesthetic, or the concept of what WHM is supposed to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with saying "I'll still play WHM because I like it." There's nothing wrong with saying "AST is too complicated for me, and I don't enjoy it." I hate NIN because, as one of my FC mates has put it, its opener is like playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard/controller while everyone else is playing scales. It's too much for my enjoyment, and that's mores stressful for me than it is fun, but that doesn't mean it's not meta or that it's a badly designed job.

If you weren't a troll and weren't baiting, then I would imagine you could read that and understand why there's a difference in speaking in absolutes vs sharing opinions. If that's something you genuinely care about, then learn how to present your posts as something other than false gospel and people will engage with you cordially.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Except it's not an opinion because you speak in absolutes. To paraphrase: "AST won't be meta over WHM because it is boring and unfun." You do this all the time where you parade around opinions and misinformation as gospel truth that the rest of us aren't enlightened enough to understand, and that's why you're always met with people claiming "bait." These statements are so far from reality that they cannot be perceived as legitimate opinions.

First and foremost "boring" is a incredibly odd choice even by your own description. You blamed the cards and divination for why AST is unfun, and someone who was bothered by those specific aspects wouldn't use the word "boring" because it doesn't make sense in that context. The words you'd actually use if those aspects of the job bothered you would be things like "confusing," "hectic," or "frustrating." "Boring" implies that something is too repetitive or slow--that you have difficulty staying focused as there's not enough to engage with in some meaningful fashion, which is not the kind of experience the card system would elicit in someone who wouldn't like it.

Next, "Meta" is used in reference to raiding, not popularity. WHM will likely always be the most popular healer in numbers because it's the most accessible healer at level 1, it's easy to play, it's a classic Final Fantasy job -snip-.

That's not to say that no one can't still like WHM. Some people like the aesthetic, or the concept of what WHM is supposed to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with saying "I'll still play WHM because I like it." There's nothing wrong with saying "AST is too complicated for me, and I don't enjoy it." I hate NIN because, as one of my FC mates has put it, its opener is like playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard/controller while everyone else is playing scales. It's too much for my enjoyment, and that's mores stressful for me than it is fun, but that doesn't mean it's not meta or that it's a badly designed job.

If you weren't a troll and weren't baiting, then I would imagine you could read that and understand why there's a difference in speaking in absolutes vs sharing opinions. If that's something you genuinely care about, then learn how to present your posts as something other than false gospel and people will engage with you cordially.

I actually appreciate this post. That kind of explains why people constantly have thought my point of view was bait. I do tend to speak in absolutes….and yes boring to me is something unfun. However the reason i consider it unfun is too many systems to manage so frustrating/unfulfilling or not worth the effort would be better description. Anyway I’ll work on this cause I tend to do it irl I think also.

[IllyaPrisma]

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

[DragoAskani]

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

[WaxSw]

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

Potencies are all we have to compare them but just by looking at the skills SGE seems to have an edge in a lot of aspects, quick examples are physis vs whispering dawn in which physis is a 20% stronger, the existence of physis 2, Zoe is far more versatile than deplo as it not only can be used to put a bigger shield with prognosis than anything Sch can put without relying on buffs and crits but also can be used with pneuma for an 800 potency heal that happens to be dps neutral (and gain in AoE), Haima as a source of single target shielding far more consistent than seraphic veil and Painhaima by its nature of shielding first and healing second has an easier time to not waste potential than Consolation, etc...

Sch shielding also does not have better numbers unless you go to suboptimal routes (basically, recitation and buff it to the extreme), Succor is worth 320 potency shield in EW which is the same as E!Prognosis and both Adlo and E!Diagnosis are clones, difference being that if you dont crit and spread an adlo you'd spread a 540 potency shield vs Zoe + E!Prognosis which is worth 640, Scholar could in theory surpass Sge's numbers if they go full protraction+recitation+fey illum+dissipation but at least 3 of those 4 skills will be used in uptime so unless a cheese strat needs it that would be overkill and poorly efficient and if we take attacks that deal multiple hits panhaima + Zoe E!prognosis alone can be better than anything Sch can throw

About range while its true Sch has the fairy to heal far away Sge's reach in terms of the radius of its heals are either equal or higher than Sch's and with Icaros to move freely to a party member unless mechanics need the healers to be far away or not being able to reach party members Sge could overcome that, thats without mention how the 3 major skills Sch has to use from far away are Consolation, Whispering Dawn and Soil have a Sge equivalent that is "fire and forget" being Panhaima a heal that automatically refresh the shield, Physis a regen that once in on the party member you can forget about it and Kerachole being also a skill that once makes contact with the party member they get the full benefit so if they have to be far away from the party for not too long periods of time a smart sge could do as well as Sch

And while its true Sge has the least mobility vs Sch its also worth notice that every downtime gives sge up to 3 intacast gcds + melee range gcd every 45s + a gap closer+ the dot refresh and the lower cast time in EW, they're not a mage turret and contrary to Sch they have more tools to move without losing dps (woudnt be suprised if they also give more ways to get toxicons in 6.05 too)

[IllyaPrisma]

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

For the sake of your argument, I will completely disregard potency (even though Potency as it stands right now puts SGE clearly in the lead)

SGE's shielding is not inferior to SCH. All of SGE's shielding GCDs can be cast while moving, giving SGE numerous situations where they would be favorable.
I also don't really understand people like you saying SGE is immobile. Each healer now has tremendous slide cast and movement potential. SGE can also gather Addersting stacks by pre-shielding before pull or during transition.
SCHs are required to save an energy drain for movement and retain their opportunity cost for Aetherflow. SGE can freely use Addersgall (Allowing for free Kerachole Damage Reduction and Regen without the placement restrictions of Soil)
Both SCH and SGE have roughly the same range on all healing abilities showcased thus far (several exceptions: Fey Blessing, Seraph, Pneuma, Physis II)
Most importantly, SGE has Prognosis, a Medica/Helios variant.

I believe the only real advantage SCH has over the other healers is Expedient and Displaced Healing. While WHM and AST have several decent options for displaced healing, SGE really doesn't have anything in that category, except for Pneuma, which has a very large 25m radius.

[rewd]

For the sake of your argument, I will completely disregard potency (even though Potency as it stands right now puts SGE clearly in the lead)

SGE's shielding is not inferior to SCH. All of SGE's shielding GCDs can be cast while moving, giving SGE numerous situations where they would be favorable.
I also don't really understand people like you saying SGE is immobile. Each healer now has tremendous slide cast and movement potential. SGE can also gather Addersting stacks by pre-shielding before pull or during transition.
SCHs are required to save an energy drain for movement and retain their opportunity cost for Aetherflow. SGE can freely use Addersgall (Allowing for free Kerachole Damage Reduction and Regen without the placement restrictions of Soil)
Both SCH and SGE have roughly the same range on all healing abilities showcased thus far (several exceptions: Fey Blessing, Seraph, Pneuma, Physis II)
Most importantly, SGE has Prognosis, a Medica/Helios variant.

I believe the only real advantage SCH has over the other healers is Expedient and Displaced Healing. While WHM and AST have several decent options for displaced healing, SGE really doesn't have anything in that category, except for Pneuma, which has a very large 25m radius.

How do potencies put SGE clearly in the lead? Most of its skills share the same potency with SCH (like Addersgall skills) and some of them are slightly more powerful or slightly weaker.

SGE has weaker shields (you could use Zoe and hope for a crit, but you can't plan around RNG) and while shields being instant is nice, it's also not the huge advantage you think it is, especially considering that shields are supposed to be planned and are something you can cast well in advance.

SGE is not the most immobile healer (that's still WHM), but it is also not as mobile as SCH. SCH can have 100% DPS uptime thanks to Ruin II and in prog the DPS loss doesn't matter so you don't have to use ED for that. SGE has Toxicon but not every fight has transitions, so sometimes it will be even more clunky to get stacks.