Changes to Savage Loot Lock System

[CKNovel]

A way around this is to simply make it less restrictive instead of removing the restriction altogether.

1-2 players have cleared? No change to coffer drops

But the people who already cleared should'nt be able to loot.
It's a great idea but there would be a way for a player to receive more loot or choose their loot week one if they would be able to roll.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I’m starting to think this is more than just about being able to play with friends & socializing.

[Anonicat]

If wanting to play with ur friends is what you truly want, how does this come in the way ?
No one is stopping you to do those with your friends, just no loot
Never had a problem with this system because if i join friends of mine and already got my clear before them, it's most of the time because they're stuck there anyway so clear with them is just the priority, not the gear.

Have you ever considered that some people love to help people clear. That some teams might be missing just one person fully capable of clearing. That people might.. i don't know play with more than 7 people.. or god forbid like raiding? Yes we do exist. The patch that drops right after the savage tier say 5.3 for example it gets to be pretty dead in PF, having to wait months to be able to do multiple runs a day.

It seems you are just wanting to gatekeep loot, tbh. When in reality. Getting BIS is guaranteed, and nothing is going to stop that. I just want to play with my friends, and join PF's and help clear. (You know being social like most do in MMO.)

[Anonicat]

I’m starting to think this is more than just about being able to play with friends & socializing.

No it's really all it is. Gatekeeping Loot is dumb.. I want to raid. As soon as a tier is over for people... it may be surprising but you know they leave! Until they can come back and do it more than once a day. It would actually maybe help out those trying to clear, with people who know what they are doing. Trying to stop the inevitable is dumb. Why not make it so people can actually help and play with people/friends. Again it has nothing to do with loot. All my jobs have been BIS for months (ofc due partially too the tier being unlocked.) I can tell you many didn't play much in 5.5X til it was unlocked, and had it not been for the loot lock, more might have been willing to join PF's play and help and foster a better community for raiding. Something some people seem against. I get this sneakily suspicion people who are saying they don't need to change the system dont realize how socially restrictive it is... nor have they started farming the savage tier.

[Izscha]

Have you ever considered that some people love to help people clear. That some teams might be missing just one person fully capable of clearing. That people might.. i don't know play with more than 7 people.. or god forbid like raiding? Yes we do exist. The patch that drops right after the savage tier say 5.3 for example it gets to be pretty dead in PF, having to wait months to be able to do multiple runs a day.

It seems you are just wanting to gatekeep loot, tbh. When in reality. Getting BIS is guaranteed, and nothing is going to stop that. I just want to play with my friends, and join PF's and help clear. (You know being social like most do in MMO.)

You're quick to jump on conclusion aren't you.
Huh dunno why you're so offensive about it but i will answer anyway :
I dont gatekeep sh*t because i dont care about others and what they do, you say it yourself getting BiS is just a matter of time, so what's the problem here ?
If your friends wants to play with you they will, if they value the chest more than playing with their friend that is willing to help, are those really your friends in the first place ?
I do help a lot of ppl on the side, but their needs comes after mine i do play to have my shit and then sure if someone needs help let's go, if they just want gear and dont care about anything else, dont bring the "i want to play with my friends" it's such a non-sense.
if they NEED you to get a clear because they can't otherwise, 1 chest isn't such a huge price to begin with, and they'all have 2 the next week now that they know what to do.
No truly i dont get how it's a problem, you want to raid with your friends you can whenever you like, they'll have their gear later so what ? They must have it asap but they can't do it by themselves first why should they have 2 chests then if they cant do it on their own ?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Have you ever considered that some people love to help people clear. That some teams might be missing just one person fully capable of clearing. That people might.. i don't know play with more than 7 people.. or god forbid like raiding? Yes we do exist. The patch that drops right after the savage tier say 5.3 for example it gets to be pretty dead in PF, having to wait months to be able to do multiple runs a day.

It seems you are just wanting to gatekeep loot, tbh. When in reality. Getting BIS is guaranteed, and nothing is going to stop that. I just want to play with my friends, and join PF's and help clear. (You know being social like most do in MMO.)

No it's really all it is. Gatekeeping Loot is dumb.. I want to raid. As soon as a tier is over for people... it may be surprising but you know they leave! Until they can come back and do it more than once a day. It would actually maybe help out those trying to clear, with people who know what they are doing. Trying to stop the inevitable is dumb. Why not make it so people can actually help and play with people/friends. Again it has nothing to do with loot. All my jobs have been BIS for months (ofc due partially too the tier being unlocked.) I can tell you many didn't play much in 5.5X til it was unlocked, and had it not been for the loot lock, more might have been willing to join PF's play and help and foster a better community for raiding. Something some people seem against. I get this sneakily suspicion people who are saying they don't need to change the system dont realize how socially restrictive it is... nor have they started farming the savage tier.

Exactly, then just form a party with that 'friend' and help them clear, discounting the loot restriction. The restriction sucks, I can relate that. But ultimately it does not stop you from helping people clear nor expanding their social circles.

How do I know this? I'm that 7th and/or 9th player back in mid-late 5.2. I was technically static-less. It was out of my FC static's generosity that they want to help newer players into raiding scene: I was one of those newer players. Loots be damned, they've set aside few hours outside their regular raiding schedule just for that & they've prepared me and some other players enough to pull our own weight. The best of all? We made a lot of friends this way, not just our own FC member, but oftentimes it's the friend of an FCmate.

If people want to help, they will help. Again, loots be damned.

This is why I'm half confused & at the same time questioning whether you solely care about the social aspect or the "loot restriction sucks!"-sentiment is just a facade for something else.

[Anonicat]

You're quick to jump on conclusion aren't you.
Huh dunno why you're so offensive about it but i will answer anyway :
I dont gatekeep sh*t because i dont care about others and what they do, you say it yourself getting BiS is just a matter of time, so what's the problem here ?
If your friends wants to play with you they will, if they value the chest more than playing with their friend that is willing to help, are those really your friends in the first place ?
I do help a lot of ppl on the side, but their needs comes after mine i do play to have my shit and then sure if someone needs help let's go, if they just want gear and dont care about anything else, dont bring the "i want to play with my friends" it's such a non-sense.
if they NEED you to get a clear because they can't otherwise, 1 chest isn't such a huge price to begin with, and they'all have 2 the next week now that they know what to do.
No truly i dont get how it's a problem, you want to raid with your friends you can whenever you like, they'll have their gear later so what ? They must have it asap but they can't do it by themselves first why should they have 2 chests then if they cant do it on their own ?

It's not non-sense. But you aren't reading what I am saying. People do want to play with friends. People do want to hop into PF's, and help people clear and get them loot. They are just non-existant items. FFXIV items aren't real *gasps*. When 2 chest is 4 pieces of gear, and and 1 is 2. its a massive difference.

And to answer your last question. There are plenty of times I clear, then a friend group asks me to sub, because some people do miss because ....*gasps* they have a real life. I know with covid and all that going on.. that people are terminally online, but some do still have to pay the bills, feed their kids, and work, and may not be able to raid all the time.

It's a problem cause it is inherently socially restrictive, and antithetical to social MMO design which this game is supposed to be about.
For me I want to play with friends, the loot to me doesn't matter but to someone else, potentially a friend or something it may matter, because they may have different plans for themselves. You can't take what I am saying for myself on loot not mattering and trying to apply it to everyone.

[Izscha]

It's not non-sense. But you aren't reading what I am saying. People do want to play with friends. People do want to hop into PF's, and help people clear and get them loot. They are just non-existant items. FFXIV items aren't real *gasps*. When 2 chest is 4 pieces of gear, and and 1 is 2. its a massive difference.

And to answer your last question. There are plenty of times I clear, then a friend group asks me to sub, because some people do miss because ....*gasps* they have a real life. I know with covid and all that going on.. that people are terminally online, but some do still have to pay the bills, feed their kids, and work, and may not be able to raid all the time.

It's a problem cause it is inherently socially restrictive, and antithetical to social MMO design which this game is supposed to be about.
For me I want to play with friends, the loot to me doesn't matter but to someone else, potentially a friend or something it may matter, because they may have different plans for themselves. You can't take what I am saying for myself on loot not mattering and trying to apply it to everyone.

Yeah that's what i thought, it was never about helping or playing with friends, it's just about greed.
Thanks for the answer !

[DrWho2010]

if we didn't have the weekly page/datalog/etc. then the loot rules might possibly need a change. but as long as your friends can get their page then they can still get loot, just perhaps not on that particular week if they don't have the requisite amount to exchange.

[ForteNightshade]

But the people who already cleared should'nt be able to loot.
It's a great idea but there would be a way for a player to receive more loot or choose their loot week one if they would be able to roll.

Oh, no. They wouldn't be able to loot if they'd previously cleared. Basically, it'd function exactly like the current system but simply allow 1-2 players to help others clear without impacting their weekly loot.

if we didn't have the weekly page/datalog/etc. then the loot rules might possibly need a change. but as long as your friends can get their page then they can still get loot, just perhaps not on that particular week if they don't have the requisite amount to exchange.

The issue becomes very few PFs want to give up loot. For those of us who actively enjoy pugging after doing weeklies with our statics, we simply can't.

Making it so 1-2 previously cleared players can help without getting anything extra themselves wouldn't impact anything but allow for more pugging participation and for friends to help sub whenever needed without taking away a coffer.