Dark Knight Megathread

[Freezaen]

The value of Missionary/HoL are on their duration being flat mitigation, making them better for spamed raidwide AOES. Exemples of this are for exemple E12S second part enrage, or the J-Waves in TEA. In those cases, HoL and Missionarry are miles better than Veil/Shake. So no, I can't let you say that it's an awfull skill when it does have advantages over its couterpart on other tanks.

I would, of course, not say no to an increase of its mitigation to 15%, but the skill is more than fine.

I agree. If they gave Dark Missionary half-effectiveness against non-magical damage (same for Dark Mind) and let us cover all our bases, I'd be happy. I've found the ability to be very useful in the situations you mentioned.

[ArthurATDayne]

Hah! Don't get me started on Heart of Light, that 90s Cooldown, 15s Duration, 10% Reduced Magic Damage Taken skill is a copy paste of Dark Missionary and Trash Tier Garbage Skill to me too. It's also the same lame skill going into Endwalker so no improvement there but thankfully, at least for Gunbreaker players, Gunbreaker has a lot of nice things going for it in Endwalker to compensate.

Divine Veil currently is pretty decent because all it takes is a heal either from yourself or someone else to trigger that 10% of Max HP Damage Prevention and 30s Duration, plenty of breathing room. Going into Endwalker it's getting a 400 Potency Heal as Additional Effect so it gets even better. I rather like it because it isn't specific to either physical or magic damage, but any damage, just use it and enjoy.

I definitely would prefer the 10% Reduced Magic Damage Taken to be more general purpose against all magic & non-magic and bumped to 15% at least, just straight up 10-15% Reduced Damage Taken, no need to guess or reserve for specific damage type situations.

[WhyAmIHere]

Sadly considering their previous actions even if DRK population sinks like a rock at most they will give some small adjustements as band aids and "look forward for the next expansion". On ShB we had Monk on that very situation and Im still crossing fingers they fix some issues they presented on their rework before Endwalker arrives, because STILL have crap like Anatman or a disjointed burst window that forces to create 21 seconds countdown so they can align to almost everyone else from the start or lose every 2 min buff window

Even then just potency changes wont be enough I feel to justify people, especially high-end raiders, wanting to take DRK when all it offers is TBN, which by EW will be overshadowed in every way, and especially not when Living Dead is going to be the worst invuln bar none. It would have to do more damage than GNB I feel before it's considered worth taking despite all it's downsides.

[Yhisa]

I don't get people issue with the job tbh....didn't everyone like "claim" that tbn is like the best skill ever

Anyway....yeah dark knights have had 2 reworks and for heavensake I do NOT miss dark arts spam at all...that playstyle was legit crap and annoying as hell to play with


The problem with dark knight is "drumroll" people play the crap out of it and got soo use to the rotation "quickly" that they are now "bored" of it

I see a lot of new players enjoying dark knight and even players who never tanked before in their life , also dark knight is actually easy to play for those type of people aswell

The problem is with the "veteran" community is that they want to bring back the "old" ways ...even know I been playing for 8 years in total, I do NOT want to bring back those days

But I will voice 1 thing, and I always said it even as a mentor....if people want to play tank for the first time, play warrior and dark knight, and the reason is because they are easy to pick up and learn

This is the whole thing I dislike today is that EVERYONE is pushing for "complexity" who been around for a few years, but news flash, not everyone likes complexity and for the "growth" of the game some jobs needs to NOT have complexity to it

I been around for years and always said to new players of they want to start to play in any roll

Tanks
Warrior or dark knight

Healers
White mage

Melee
Samurai

Caster
Black mage

Physical range
Machinest

The reasons is and I will quote momo on this the best jobs to learn is those who can do well outsides of buff windows or is a selfish dps, or is easy to use overall , every other job is more "advance" to perform well in any raid content ...both with warrior and dark knight u can legit just press 1 button to start burst mode off (not going the whole min max rotation bs btw)


So yeah if people want more complex or "fun" job maybe a change from the job will bring back love, or do what most people do, just change job every expansion to keep things fresh

Myself (main 1 in each role)

ARR
Scholar / summoner / paladin / bard / monk

HW
Astrologian / black mage / warrior/ machinest/ dragoon

SB
white mage / red mage / dark knight / bard/ ninja

Shb
White mage / red mage / paladin / dancer/ samurai

Endwalker
Plans to get reaper / sage to 80 then leveling crafter's and gathers / white mage to 90, but most likely will main white mage + paladin this expansion

[Yhisa]

Ohhh and just to add onto my comment

What is more fun?

Scribbling down math problems, making curse openers, knee jerking over parse numbers

Or

Pretend to be edgy AF, feeling cool swinging a 2h sword blasting out black magic, summon a clone of Ur self and nickname Ur clone to a funny name, and feel like your the dark overlord in the world of final fantasy

So any comments below this please vote what u considered FUN in the game.......if maths becomes the majority votes ....then rip FFXIV it will turn into wow where elites will "force" meta gaming and suffer the same fate

And I DO NOT want it to go down the same path

[ItMe]

So any comments below this please vote what u considered FUN in the game.......

Glamour babyyyy

[Shurrikhan]

The problem with dark knight is "drumroll" people play the crap out of it and got soo use to the rotation "quickly" that they are now "bored" of it

So if a job (which--admittedly irrelevant--only has 3 contextual points of decision per average minute) is found boring sooner than another (which--equally irrelevant--has roughly three times the points of decision or factors behind those decisions), that's purely because those who play the first job were more akin to meta-gamers or no-lifers than the second job's players?

And this isn't an object lesson in reductive argument?

[Shin96]

TLDR

What should I say. Congrats.

I wasn't attacking ItMe or anyone. That post before the Enhanced Unmend were my thoughts on the situation or what I thought of it. I don't care what people think about my proposals. Dont like it? Glance over it. Like I did with most of your post.

Sigh.. Upgraded Plunge is nothing but an example. Giving people something more to use at an earlier level is better than wasting precious space by giving us a gap closer so underwhelming it might be considered a meme at this point. Later on you'd have a decent skill that gives that surprise and feels new.

My original aims were inspired by the thought that the developers had simply not yet established the whole concept of the 5.0 tank. Also, if you love Lyth's post so much, go chat 'em up or something. I'd like a 1-2-3-4 combo and they don't, as an example. Their response? "You don't need.. You don't need". Thanks for trying to figure out what parts of a job it is I need and whatnot. Anyways, next time you respond to me make it short man. Don't want to waste my time on this stuff.

[Ignimortis]

Ohhh and just to add onto my comment

What is more fun?

Scribbling down math problems, making curse openers, knee jerking over parse numbers

Or

Pretend to be edgy AF, feeling cool swinging a 2h sword blasting out black magic, summon a clone of Ur self and nickname Ur clone to a funny name, and feel like your the dark overlord in the world of final fantasy

So any comments below this please vote what u considered FUN in the game.......if maths becomes the majority votes ....then rip FFXIV it will turn into wow where elites will "force" meta gaming and suffer the same fate

And I DO NOT want it to go down the same path

You do realize the majority of comments in this thread are not really concerned with DRK having solid numbers or being "complex enough to dissuade new players from trying it"? People are mostly complaining how the job isn't fun to play. And it's not fun to play precisely because it lacks any coherency (not necessarily complexity) in the current kit, as well as any mechanical identity to the class that isn't "I have TBN" (which is now irrelevant, come EW).

And besides, DRK was never complex enough to stop people from playing it for style. I am not an optimizing enough to turn to spreadsheets or anything, but I do like using my class to the fullest, simply because I like playing well, and I haven't had problems with DRK on that front, ever. It was always quite understandable and easy to pilot.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

snip

I hope you're joking or just have never stepped foot into difficult content. Dark Missionary & HoL are incredibly powerful in rapid heavy damage multi-AoE situations that Veil & Shake fall flat in comparatively.

E4s: Tumult spam into Voice of the Land. You can shake/veil 2-3 tumults out of 6-8, or you can shake/Veil the Voice, but not both. Contrast DM & HoL that can cover the entire tumult wave + Voice all in one. 10% on 9-10 hits >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15% shield.
E8s: Any of the Ahk Morn -> Morn Afah AoE damage vomits throughout the fight. Same concept as Tumult/Voice. pick one, but not both. Same thing with the double knockback mirrors where shields get stripped from the first hit, but Dm/HoL can absorb both knockback mirror hits.
E12s: Literally the entire last 40s of the fight is nothing more than a continuous magical damage vomit where Veil and shake can barely take a single wave of Quietus or a Shockwave Pulsar, whereas DM/HoL can mitigate Ridiculous amounts of that damage due to their 15s durations. Proper timing lets you catch an entire wave of Quietus, a Shockwave Pulsar, and then another round of Quietus before falling off.

TEA: J-Wave burn, Double Mega Holy, Splashes into Cascade, the ultimate is filled to the brim with sections that shake/veil fall flat.

And those are just the capstone fights and ultimate of SHB. I could go into huge depth about the usefulness of DM/HoL in pretty much every savage fight and DRs if you wanted. DM/HoL don't need extra effects slapped onto them, they're already insanely strong in current fight design. Also pro-tip: Pretty much every source of raidwide damage is magic. Dm/HoL rarely have issues being magic damage only. They'd be crazy OP if they were physical as well, since it'd make them effectively a 15s reprisal and make them super OP during mass pulls in dungeons compared to Shake.

Veil/Shake & DM/HoL both have situations where they blow each other out of the water. Single, extremely heavy hits like Morn Afah in UCoB/Primal ults in UwU/Serene Grace in TEA? Shields win. Extremely rapid, multi-hit aoe raidwides or damage vomits? HoL/DM crush Shake/Veil into the dirt. not even the extra cure potency will help them that much in EW, only making them a bit better in situations where they fall flat. Comparing them to each other is pointless when their strengths are completely opposite one another and whether HoL/DM or shake/veil is better is literally down to fight design.

The problem with Dark Missionary is that it already exists 2 more times as of EW. RDM gets it and GNB has it.

You mean once more, since GNB already has it currently.

But why is that any sort of issue? 10% magic damage over 15s is a strong ability, hence why it didn't get changed. RDM getting it doesn't devalue the fact DM/HoL are still crazy strong against certain fight designs that shields fall flat in. All 3 ranged have 10% damage reduction over 15s and that doesn't devalue DM/HoL either. If anything, it values bringing DRK, GNB & RDM to fights where massive aoe burns are happening.

why even need it on a tank if you have a RDM? Pair it with tank shielding and have the RDM pop it and the DRK will sit there twiddling his thumbs because stacking defensive cooldowns is inefficient.

You realize DM/HoL will still be 9% even if a RDM pops it first, right? 9% on tons of hits >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any % shield.
The RDM won't just be popping it. If the damage is high enough like in Tumult -> voice or Ahk Morn -> Morn afah scenarios, guess what? Both of them will be popping it. or better yet, you ration them out like in Wrym's lament 2 when Shiva does ahk morn -Morn afah 3x back to back, or daisy chain them so the next one starts rolling when the previous one falls off in something like E12s's terminal relativity burn. You could have RDM cover one set, DRk cover another, GNb cover the 3rd.

Just because the same skill is present on multiple jobs doesn't devalue its power. Not -everything- has to be unique when it's already incredibly strong. The devs trying to make things unique is how we got Living Dead.