Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[Velnora]

or maybe the west is just wrong in their mentality and the dungeon design is fine and in the end japan is all that matter anyway if the japanese players think its fine its fine but if you need this challenge you seem to crave I hear there some game called World of Warcraft waiting for you .... their obsession with challenge turned the playerbase into a complete toxic cesspool

Japanese level design has been trash for awhile now. This isn't exclusive to FF14. From Software is an exception.

[_Koneko_]

Japanese level design has been trash for awhile now. This isn't exclusive to FF14. From Software is an exception.

According to you but there is a culture difference at work here and the people who matter aka the people this game was made for aka the japanese like the game how it is

in the grand scheme the United States or Europe don't matter the game can live on asia alone

[Velnora]

According to you but there is a culture difference at work here and the people who matter aka the people this game was made for aka the japanese like the game how it is

in the grand scheme the United States or Europe don't matter the game can live on asia alone

It's rather bold of you to speak for all of the japanese. It has nothing to do with "culture", and everything to do with objectively bad level design.

[Artemiz]

It's rather bold of you to speak for all of the japanese. It has nothing to do with "culture", and everything to do with objectively bad level design.

Well that depends on what the design philosophy is, doesn't it. If the design is supposed to give experienced players an immersive, dynamic and challenging environment then yes, it's bad design. On the other hand if the design is for easy going content everyone can complete, even the easiest to challenge players in the game, on a daily basis in 15 minutes or less with very little stress and arguing, then the design makes much more sense.

People really do struggle to argue objectively on topics like this, just because you find them easy and boring, that makes them easy and boring full stop. No, you might not like them but others are having fun with them, Square have all the data, they know how much this content is being played and seem very happy to pitch it at this level of difficulty and devote large resources towards it every patch.

[Velnora]

Well that depends on what the design philosophy is, doesn't it. If the design is supposed to give experienced players an immersive, dynamic and challenging environment then yes, it's bad design. On the other hand if the design is for easy going content everyone can complete, even the easiest to challenge players in the game, on a daily basis in 15 minutes or less with very little stress and arguing, then the design makes much more sense.

People really do struggle to argue objectively on topics like this, just because you find them easy and boring, that makes them easy and boring full stop. No, you might not like them but others are having fun with them, Square have all the data, they know how much this content is being played and seem very happy to pitch it at this level of difficulty and devote large resources towards it every patch.

Not talking about whether they are fun or entertaining. Nor is it difficulty, as difficulty =/=level design. Again, this isn't exclusive to FF14. FF13 was also heavily criticized for this, and again with FF7R.

[Snorky]

Not talking about whether they are fun or entertaining. Nor is it difficulty, as difficulty =/=level design.

But that is the point fun doesn't have to equal difficult entertaining doesn't have to equal hard there is nothing wrong with the design either.

[Velnora]

But that is the point fun doesn't have to equal difficult entertaining doesn't have to equal hard there is nothing wrong with the design either.

That isn't what I said, at all.

[Artemiz]

Not talking about whether they are fun or entertaining. Nor is it difficulty, as difficulty =/=level design. Again, this isn't exclusive to FF14. FF13 was also heavily criticized for this, and again with FF7R.

What exactly is your problem with the current dungeons then? You seem very vocal about how "trash" they are yet apparently you aren't saying they are boring or too easy. What is is you expect from content designed for the entire player base?

[Velnora]

What exactly is your problem with the current dungeons then? You seem very vocal about how "trash" they are yet apparently you aren't saying they are boring or too easy. What is is you expect from content designed for the entire player base?

They are glorified hallways. I know they are boring and incredibly easy, but that is an issue separate from level design.