Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[Garnix]

Quoting for emphasis. Also a WoW refugee. The things people are asking for have ruined countless other MMO's not just WoW. Overly competitive content just breed toxicity. A side note Im actually concerned about Endwalker "bring more PvP content." The few front lines I have done are one of the only places where I have seen people call out others so negatively and be super toxic. Im really glad you at least can't see the names of enemy team mates.

I am probably in an extreme minority in saying the following, but that okay. I don't want the dungeons to be more complicated but I sincerely wish trash would hit much, much harder. I wish it was harder to do big pulls if not impossible. It would solve the problem healers seem to have of being bored in the role they chose to play of their own free will, and players, especially newer players could stop keeping sprint on cooldown and actually remember a little bit what the dungeon they just did actually looks like.

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

I think thats a pretty fine plan. Just a hard mode for existing content. Imagine having to actually use sleep on a mob in a dungeon because if you pull one too many, you wipe. I don't even know what the sleep animation looks like and thats kinda sad.

[DPZ2]

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

"Just make things hit a bit harder" ... this will be the regular rule of order when the Endwalker stat squish occurs. Done.

"Remove some telegraphs" ... too confusing to the player, who expect telegraphs in all content. Or are you saying that the ones you find in, say, fighting Storge in Shadowbringers should be hidden?

"Add a boss mechanic or two" ... the current difference between normal and hard modes in dungeon instances already do that. Note that some (Hard) instances are also story mode instances.

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

[Nyarlha]

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

I have to laugh at people thinking "it's fine, they can just add a hard modes for every dungeon" while the patch cycle schedule is already too tight as it is for the team.

[RitsukoSonoda]

"Just make things hit a bit harder" ... this will be the regular rule of order when the Endwalker stat squish occurs. Done.

"Remove some telegraphs" ... too confusing to the player, who expect telegraphs in all content. Or are you saying that the ones you find in, say, fighting Storge in Shadowbringers should be hidden?

"Add a boss mechanic or two" ... the current difference between normal and hard modes in dungeon instances already do that. Note that some (Hard) instances are also story mode instances.

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

Yeah again I'm interested in how much of an impact the upcoming stat squish will have... Another thought that just came to mind since it seems to effect ilvl climb starting at lv 50. What if this means people will have to actually do mechanics in the CT raids? Or not faceroll every boss/encounter in castrum and prae in a matter of seconds?

There were a few AoE's in the past that weren't telegraphed with a ground marker originally. One example was the front arc and 360 degree swing attacks by cyclops type enemies. However alot of players apparently couldn't see the slowly filling cast bar when it said something like 1000 tonze swing and think to move away from it.

[DPZ2]

There were a few AoE's in the past that weren't telegraphed with a ground marker originally. One example was the front arc and 360 degree swing attacks by cyclops type enemies. However alot of players apparently couldn't see the slowly filling cast bar when it said something like 1000 tonze swing and think to move away from it.

It wasn't so much the cast bar on the cyclops as it was the confusion about "where is the telegraph?". The game mechanics have taught players at all levels of instance that telegraphs signal areas of effect, while cast bars generally announce TKOs for which there is no area of effect. The change in Aurum Vale corrected what I considered to be an anomaly in this 'signaling'.

I'm sure most players will adjust to the new stat squish, however it is created. I remember the changes when HW came out -- those Deepeyes hit a lot harder than similar mobs in ARR (as did all the other mobs, of course) until the gear could begin to accommodate.

At a guess, the days of mass dungeon pulls may be quickly forgotten when 6-9 mobs will kill you because you can't kill them fast enough.

[Shurrikhan]

It wasn't so much the cast bar on the cyclops as it was the confusion about "where is the telegraph?".

Idk, when I see a giant cyclops squeeze down on his club, tighten his muscles, and begin to glow slightly, I tend to assume that the guy might not just be doing isometrics...

The change in Aurum Vale corrected what I considered to be an anomaly in this 'signaling'.

It wasn't an anomaly, though -- merely a type. Quite a few bosses at the time, especially across FATEs, followed similar practices. Heck, probably the only "anomoly" still, to this day, is the ease of dodging the follow-up frontal cleave from Cyclops, which still has no indicator.

(That or perhaps the likes of Frost Breath in SV, which is likewise situationally actively dodgeable by changing angle between when the boss's position is snapshotted in preparation for the queued instant cast, since any others actively dodgeable, like Vine Probe, tended to require Sprint or AV 1st boss's frontal cleave or a mobility skill, but had many more examples in similar type.)