Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[Nishira]

I don’t know Jirah, I meant that sincerely when I said I don’t know. Would I like to see some changes in the formula as it has evolved over time? Yes absolutely. Do I think going back to what was is realistic? I think that’s automatically considered ‘niche’ these days. And that’s just not what game devs will put a lot of their resources in. I’m trying to figure out what would work and I come up blank myself (good thing I’m not a game dev )

[Jirah]

I don’t know Jirah, I meant that sincerely when I said I don’t know. Would I like to see some changes in the formula as it has evolved over time? Yes absolutely. Do I think going back to what was is realistic? I think that’s automatically considered ‘niche’ these days. And that’s just not what game devs will put a lot of their resources in. I’m trying to figure out what would work and I come up blank myself (good thing I’m not a game dev )

Evolving and going back don’t mix, we need to adapts and evolve to what’s given not just simply regress to what we moved on from. And contrary to everyone here, also doesn’t mean stagnate and not do anything with it as well or make it more trivial.

[Nishira]

Evolving and going back don’t mix, we need to adapts and evolve to what’s given not just simply regress to what we moved on from. And contrary to everyone here, also doesn’t mean stagnate and not do anything with it as well or make it more trivial.

I think I haven’t seen many advocating in this thread to have it remain where it is.

Some do, they enjoy it as it is and enjoy the fact it doesn’t take too much brainpower to clear. Which is a valid point, whether someone else likes the consequences of it or not. So I think we can safely conclude some are actually happy with it the way it is now. Some don’t want it to be harder because dungeons will take longer, and they’ll get even more frustrated with other players not playing great. Some worry it’ll give reason for a rise in elitism and more people getting kicked, which, all things considered, isn’t farfetched when I think on how that played out in other games I’ve played. Some feel it is sufficiently hard for new(er) players and I have to say as a new player myself it’s a lot to take in every time with all the different boss abilities and mechanics. This obviously changes once you get more familiar with content but it’s something to keep in mind when you design content everyone is funneled through. I’m just giving a few examples of why people may oppose change, I’m sure there are more.

Personally I feel boss fights in this game are fun, with a lot of interesting mechanics. It’s obvious they put a lot of effort into that. I do think the general flow of dungeons could be changed, I get the hallways 3 packs of trash complaints. I’d suggest looking into that if anyone asked for my opinion But what I’d replace it with I’m not sure. Tougher trash? I think many would just find that annoying. More intricate layout? Probably the same. More optional events? People would skip that for maximum efficiency if they can. A lot has been tried to entice players to play differently and I think often it feels like needless and frustrating obstacles to the finish line. That’s why I say I don’t know what would be an amazing alternative.

[Velnora]

I think I haven’t seen many advocating in this thread to have it remain where it is.

Some do, they enjoy it as it is and enjoy the fact it doesn’t take too much brainpower to clear. Which is a valid point, whether someone else likes the consequences of it or not. So I think we can safely conclude some are actually happy with it the way it is now. Some don’t want it to be harder because dungeons will take longer, and they’ll get even more frustrated with other players not playing great. Some worry it’ll give reason for a rise in elitism and more people getting kicked, which, all things considered, isn’t farfetched when I think on how that played out in other games I’ve played. Some feel it is sufficiently hard for new(er) players and I have to say as a new player myself it’s a lot to take in every time with all the different boss abilities and mechanics. This obviously changes once you get more familiar with content but it’s something to keep in mind when you design content everyone is funneled through. I’m just giving a few examples of why people may oppose change, I’m sure there are more.

Personally I feel boss fights in this game are fun, with a lot of interesting mechanics. It’s obvious they put a lot of effort into that. I do think the general flow of dungeons could be changed, I get the hallways 3 packs of trash complaints. I’d suggest looking into that if anyone asked for my opinion But what I’d replace it with I’m not sure. Tougher trash? I think many would just find that annoying. More intricate layout? Probably the same. More optional events? People would skip that for maximum efficiency if they can. A lot has been tried to entice players to play differently and I think often it feels like needless and frustrating obstacles to the finish line. That’s why I say I don’t know what would be an amazing alternative.

Alot of the issues stem from japanese level design being absolute trash tier.

[Artemiz]

I dont see anyone trying to "protect the casuals" I see people trying to explain why they matter.

[Jirah]

I dont see anyone trying to "protect the casuals" I see people trying to explain why they matter.

I’ve been dealing with this debate since early SB, and I see every point across. This includes the “protect the casuals” crowd. You have to be incredibly selective on your choice of posts if you can confidently say “I don’t see anyone” in that particular crowd when the major points are for them And them alone. I’m running out of posts for the day so I’ll just say this, dungeon design can use some spice here and there, not to undermine the point of casual content nor to tear it down but to integrate a bit more thought into them. I mean for crying out loud you can go afk in relict and only do snort and win, or better yet don’t do any tank buffs, or even attack outside of 1 or 2 aoes and still can pass it successfully due to how under-tuned and how pointless mechanics are. I want less of that and more of what SB dungeons or HW dungeons brought to the table, hell even a few leveling dungeons in SHB were ok, but fall flat and boring when it comes to 80s

[Ayche]

Do not start owning up the "silent majority".
It leads down to even trashier arguments.

[_Koneko_]

or maybe the west is just wrong in their mentality and the dungeon design is fine and in the end japan is all that matter anyway if the japanese players think its fine its fine but if you need this challenge you seem to crave I hear there some game called World of Warcraft waiting for you .... their obsession with challenge turned the playerbase into a complete toxic cesspool

[Velnora]

or maybe the west is just wrong in their mentality and the dungeon design is fine and in the end japan is all that matter anyway if the japanese players think its fine its fine but if you need this challenge you seem to crave I hear there some game called World of Warcraft waiting for you .... their obsession with challenge turned the playerbase into a complete toxic cesspool

Japanese level design has been trash for awhile now. This isn't exclusive to FF14. From Software is an exception.

[_Koneko_]

Japanese level design has been trash for awhile now. This isn't exclusive to FF14. From Software is an exception.

According to you but there is a culture difference at work here and the people who matter aka the people this game was made for aka the japanese like the game how it is

in the grand scheme the United States or Europe don't matter the game can live on asia alone