RIP MNK 1.x - 5.x

[ssunny2008]

This has become a bit aggressive everyone has their opinions

Nobody has ever said something against opinions, but a lot of arguments against positionals are inconsistent or made by ppl without much experience / who don´t even try.

- There are claims like "positionals don´t bring anything to the gameplay". But imagine there are a lot of players who like them and would miss them, because it´s atleast a small challenge and a bunch of movement in an 98% braindead and static game. Of course MNK needed a new mechanic, but that doesn´t mean, that positionals should go away, even if those are only 2 imo. They do bring much more to the gameplay then pressing 123 over and over again to fill a gauge until you can press 4.

- Then you´ve claims like "positionals are easy to play". So why does ppl don´t get used to them so easily? I´ve never got an answer on this, the reason seems obvious.

- Or "i hate playing positionals". Fine... but MNK has always been about them. Why don´t you pick another class? "Because i like some aesthetics."
But in the next moment: "MNK has no finisher and need better aesthetics".
And ok, why don´t you just ignore positionals then? They´re not needed in any content out of savage / ultimate. -> Still no answer on this and guess what? I can easily spy such guys and know, that they don´t even play the endgame and are not even good players, for sure.

- Lately someone special here was like "get ride of positionals pls" too, but in the next self-made thread he´s asking "what´s the purpose of anatman". Really? Does it sounds experienced or something?
Or the same guy is like "I hate positionals on MNK, but love them on DRG." Sooooo... play Dragoon?!

- Or like we´ve seen in this thread, ppl have never really played, tried or did math, tested stuff, whatever... but let´s claim that MNK positionals are irrelevant, because it´s only a 5% damage loss. Like what?
And even if that would be a thing, what in gods name hinders you to ignore them, when they´re useless anyway in your eyes?


Maybe you´ve some answers?

Nobody will say something against an opinion, but stuff like this doesn´t make sense. Such ppl just spread false informations or lie on purpose, just to find some arguments against positionals, which doesn´t show "i´m a bad player, i´m lazy".
I´ve never seen any MNK main complain like "We don´t want new mechanics."
It was needed. But what we want is that ALL positionals should stay as they are imo. And of course it would be kind to get a new and UNIQUE mechanic and not just the Meikyo Mudra we´ll get with blitz. 6.0 MNK will be more similar to other melees and will be easier to play. Even then... i wouldn´t be surprised, that the same ppl show up like "bäääh MNK", "bäääh positionals" in endwalker.

The acceptance of ppl, who don´t like anything about a class in this game, is a joke. I dislike SMN and DNC the most for a bunch of reasons, but do i complain about it? Do i want to get them changed for my own favor? No, i just don´t play them, unless i want to get an achievement or so. My better half for example is playing healer only, because everything else is either too boring or doesn´t match her playstyle. Does she complain? No... and so do millions of players, who can accept that a game has to offer different stuff for different ppl. SE needs to stop to cater the ignorance of some lefthanded players out there, seriously.

[Navnav]

- Lately someone special here was like "get ride of positionals pls" too, but in the next self-made thread he´s asking "what´s the purpose of anatman". Really? Does it sounds experienced or something?
Or the same guy is like "I hate positionals on MNK, but love them on DRG." Sooooo... play Dragoon?!

Hello my guy...

Anatman IS pointless. Just form shift. That MINIMAL gain over a long fight IS pointless. You can argue, but it is never going to make thta much of a difference.
Also, just because you don't like what I am saying, doesn't make it an invalid point, get off your high horse yeah. A lot of you think you are some kind gods at this game, but seemingly never played anything else. You don't know how this game can be better because you don't know how these kinds of games work, YOU are in fact the inexperienced one.

[wereotter]

Hello my guy...

Anatman IS pointless. Just form shift. That MINIMAL gain over a long fight IS pointless. You can argue, but it is never going to make thta much of a difference.
Also, just because you don't like what I am saying, doesn't make it an invalid point, get off your high horse yeah. A lot of you think you are some kind gods at this game, but seemingly never played anything else. You don't know how this game can be better because you don't know how these kinds of games work, YOU are in fact the inexperienced one.

minimal gain ≠ no gain

Monk has historically been the king of minimally useful, niche skills there to act as a bandaid on the mechanic that was greased lightning. The fact that you're unaware of this and are constantly on here criticizing the job because of its core identity without knowing what its skills are for really proves ssunny's point that actually you're the inexperienced one.

Yes, but that's precisely my point. Given those tools... why remove the positionals from all Raptor skills?

It might make sense, QoL-wise, to essentially turn RoE into a simple stack system as I described before, but short of that... what use do we have for a form losing positionals?

Riddle of Earth is a stack system, so I'm not sure what you're asking for... you get three stacks of it currently. I can't defend the loss of the positionals based off the blitz mechanic any better, though, since we don't know too much about how the system will operate yet, only to say that the devs stated that this was the reason they were removed from those two skills. We'll be able to weigh in more as to if they actually needed to do it once we get to play with it.

[Shurrikhan]

Riddle of Earth is a stack system, so I'm not sure what you're asking for... you get three stacks of it currently.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I just meant removing the button-bloat and weave cost of RoE in favor of a passively generated stack system for which each stack (to a max of, say, 3 stored) forgives a missed positional. That to me would be a sensible change, far more so than Raptor's lost positionals, which were neither needed nor happen to solve anything (since you'd still be dependent on lucky timing).

Personally, I feel that the 3 charges of RoE, each lasting a whopping 10s, is already highly overkill, but I'd have no issue with a faint measure of lenience that could then actually combat unexpected mob-spinning.

[ssunny2008]

Hello my guy...

Anatman IS pointless. Just form shift. That MINIMAL gain over a long fight IS pointless. You can argue, but it is never going to make thta much of a difference.

Why should i argue about that? I read the skill at its rework and the first thing in my mind was "ok, bye anatman". It might be useful in 1% of all content so.
But gratz that you´ve found that out by asking ppl here.

Also, just because you don't like what I am saying, doesn't make it an invalid point, get off your high horse yeah. A lot of you think you are some kind gods at this game, but seemingly never played anything else. You don't know how this game can be better because you don't know how these kinds of games work, YOU are in fact the inexperienced one.

You make you own points invalid by claiming controversial things and being unexperienced with classes you actually want to rework. You don´t even play the endgame much, the only thing in this game where a good performance is needed. Again, don´t play positionals on MNK?! What´s the point to ignore them in braindead content aka dungeons, bozja, everything in the daily-roulette, treasure maps, fates...

And imagine i´ve more gaming experience than the tripled age of this game. I do even like sitting on my high horse, together with my pack of skills, fast class and mechanic understanding and overall gameplay experience.
But of course, you´re right. I don´t know how to make this game better for lazy players. To create a 1 button game with rewards for free and animations kids find "super-duper-UwU-tastic" is under my dignity. I´m a real gamer, someone who learns classes and mechanics, someone who picks the challenge, someone who works for his rewards and someone who can accept, that not every class is made for everyone.
I can´t be proud to stay on dumb downed meta classes, or to show others my cool mount i´ve "achieved" with wall to wall gangbang, unsynched runs or while i got carried by other players or the content itself.

Your whole view is not grounded in reality, it is simply idealistic thinking. The REALITY is you are in no control over whether what a tank may decide to do, but what they do affects your damage. That is a designflaw for monk more than ny other as every ability is a positional. Reality says the tank doesn't care about your ideals, the tank will play how he wants to play. And don't come with this, "BuT iT IsNt SaVaGe!", cmon even in the normals people want to do some damage.

How about dancer? Are you sure your dancepartner plays well? Or bard with his songs? What about ANY other raidbuffs so far? MNK, RDM, DRG, NIN, AST?
What if a healer forgets to heal? What if your stackpartner doesn´t stack? What if you´re the bad guy, who lies at the ground and the group is wiping because of it?

Questions over questions and one simple answer... IT`S A TEAMGAME.... and shit happens. If you don´t want to rely on other players, don´t play a MMORPG. (MM means Massiv Multiplayer!!!)

Where does the "spin 2 win tank" belief even stem from? These posts bringing them up greatly exaggerate their uncommon occurrence and act like it isn't anything more than a mild inconvenience so long as they aren't griefing. Even if that was the case, that's a problem with that specific player, not a problem with a feature on an entirely unrelated role.

I´ve had one time someone in syrcus tower who did that on purpose. Spamming the ranged attack to stay high in aggro and moving in a circle. But seriously i can even understand the borderness to play such content over and over again especially since the tank dumbdowns, so who cares? Even as OT in savage i run my own circles, because you had nothing to do this tier. Man that was funny together with my old dancer... sometimes i even got dancebuddy.
And at the first SHB instance, i went afk to make a cup of tea. When i came back, i still tanked the endboss. Insane experience....

It happens once in ages to get such a guy, the most others who struggle a bit are newcomers. But if you teach them, all is fine. Ppl just exaggerating things like always, and of course it´s always the others or the games fault.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Why should i argue about that? I read the skill at its rework and the first thing in my mind was "ok, bye anatman". It might be useful in 1% of all content so.
But gratz that you´ve found that out by asking ppl here.

As much as I love monk I dont think the devs really know what they actually want from it. I mean a good 80% of skills that have been added have been either situational or borderline useless(I mean on release of new skills not after patches/overhauls) . Don't get me wrong I love monk and it's still my main but i'd just like a fresher coat of paint on the class. Saying that I think this update might be that as it does sound interesting.

[ssunny2008]

As much as I love monk I dont think the devs really know what they actually want from it. I mean a good 80% of skills that have been added have been either situational or borderline useless(I mean on release of new skills not after patches/overhauls) . Don't get me wrong I love monk and it's still my main but i'd just like a fresher coat of paint on the class. Saying that I think this update might be that as it does sound interesting.

I know what you mean and as i´ve said, i´m ok with the new mechanic, but still sceptical. Imo i just don´t see the need why raptor positionals have to go. MNK seems less busier than it is now. And i would still prefer something new. At any reworks it´s in my brain like "just another gauge". SMN got the same... you get your crystals, press 1 button. We´ve this on any classes and either you collect some points with your rotation, you use 3 skills in an order or in case of WHM, you´re infight.
I don´t know why SE lost their creativity. Stuff like mudra, the old AST cards, positionals or different pets for different circumstances has been great.

[wereotter]

I know what you mean and as i´ve said, i´m ok with the new mechanic, but still sceptical. Imo i just don´t see the need why raptor positionals have to go. MNK seems less busier than it is now. And i would still prefer something new. At any reworks it´s in my brain like "just another gauge". SMN got the same... you get your crystals, press 1 button. We´ve this on any classes and either you collect some points with your rotation, you use 3 skills in an order or in case of WHM, you´re infight.
I don´t know why SE lost their creativity. Stuff like mudra, the old AST cards, positionals or different pets for different circumstances has been great.

I think all of us kind of felt that same thing. Monks in most games just didn't have a lot for them to go off of when creating new job skills and identities. So it's fair to have them look at the job and just think monk hit hard and... uhhh...?

I kind of had thought Tifa's mechanics from FF7R would have been a decent, if boring, add to the game. Build up stacks of a skill, like how we used to with greased lightning, then spend those on a high power combo, think like the gunbreaker ammo combo, except with monk you would have to have all three stacks of resources to do all three moves. But even that's kind of dull. So I'm glad they tried to figure out how to make Sabin's mechanic work. Just need to see more before I can get an opinion of if this is a good update to the job or just another failed attempt....

but at least this is a bigger attempt than they've really ever made.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think all of us kind of felt that same thing. Monks in most games just didn't have a lot for them to go off of when creating new job skills and identities. So it's fair to have them look at the job and just think monk hit hard and... uhhh...?

I kind of had thought Tifa's mechanics from FF7R would have been a decent, if boring, add to the game. Build up stacks of a skill, like how we used to with greased lightning, then spend those on a high power combo, think like the gunbreaker ammo combo, except with monk you would have to have all three stacks of resources to do all three moves. But even that's kind of dull. So I'm glad they tried to figure out how to make Sabin's mechanic work. Just need to see more before I can get an opinion of if this is a good update to the job or just another failed attempt....

but at least this is a bigger attempt than they've really ever made.

Too be honest i'd have been happy with this skill changes to this at x lvl. Monk doesnt need much and what it's had from ARR works. As for skills that slow u down/niche skills like six sided star i'd rather just have a weaker skill than a penalty.

While I know I was one for keeping all positionals, however, at this point they probably aren't going to be adding them, so I will wait until I get my hands on the job myself and try it out. I will then form my conclusion as to whether it was a good idea or not.

Chances are, I'm still going to be hitting the raptor positionals just out of pure habit, so it should be easy to tell if the removal was needed.

LMAO I can see myself still doing the positionals too