Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[Myon88]

The main thing for me that I’ve always hated on SMN is that the focus is on the caster and not the pet.

For years there have been complaints about summoner feeling janky to play because pet-sourced attacks are subject to lag and the whims of pet AI in this game. It has continued to be a frustrating issue in Shadowbringers too.

Progressively moving spells to the summoner has been a conscious measure to sidestep that problem, so I think it's unlikely you'll get your wish of a stronger pet focus.

I can relate to that approach causing a disconnect between the gameplay and fantasy of the job though. They've gutted demi-summon interaction even further by making them work like the DRK and MCH pets which autoattack by themselves, and I'm not particularly pleased with that change.

[Ailuron]

omg someone else that's also not impressed with the direction SMN is heading :O

I felt the same. I never minded the pet delay, in fact it makes sense that your pet, a separate entity would have its own pacing. I can see why that would be a problem with ghosting, but that would be something a SMN should manage.. or better yet, improve the pet AI. Id rather that then to have it reduced to casting primal-themed spells... the rework now.. It makes no difference what so ever if Ifrit/Titan/Garuda shows up for their glorious 2 whole seconds or not, before you proceed to cast spells or primal-themed spells yourself.. Its got nothing to do with summoning... more like channeling a primal mode rather than summoning.. At its core.. it boils down to SMNs getting 3 smaller modes/phases (with some minor differences) for them to cast spells... just fancy flavorful spells, that wouldnt matter if its associated with a primal or not..

I just don't think losing all that makes SMN unique (pets and DoTs) is worth it, since I doubt it would hold up against, say, a BLM in DPS even after being shoved into a more traditional caster mold. To think that they also contemplated removing combat raise for SMNs too... Gives me shivers just thinking about it..

Still, as im new to FFXIV.. Have to try it to see..

Then there's SCH's combat peloton. . . sigh

[AngeliouxRein]

Yeah.. that carbuncle just chillin there is the thing that bugs me the most. I was really hoping to see it changing colors each time the SMN switched primal stances. Indicating that it too had skills that we could use while we cycle through the rotations. I mean, at least have the carbuncle auto attack or something. I don’t mind the egi changes but I didn’t think this would mean only bahamut and Phoenix is our true pets that we only can control for a few seconds. As of right now we either look like a mobile BLM or a magic version of MCH with all the burst rotations… definitely torn.. and SCH didn’t help any of my emotions one bit…

Looking at the job video.. I think the only skill carbuncle reacts to, besides summoning, is when the SMN orders it to place what looks like, the Titan shield.. I guess that’s something but not enough.

[Dyvid]

I guess you can't call it a Ruin Mage now since they changed ruin to elemental attacks instead.... Doesn't address any of the issues the job had in 4.0 and 5.0.

Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to give players a Ramuh, Leviathan, or Shiva stance even though they told us 7 years ago we would see those pets err summons.

[Exodus-E]

Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to give players a Ramuh, Leviathan, or Shiva stance even though they told us 7 years ago we would see those pets err summons.

Indeed.
Which is why I'm still hopeful that they'll (finally) implement proper Egi glamours during 6.X.
It could be extended to change our current gemstones (thus, what pseudo-Primal we actually summon, like the remaining ARR ones).

[Rika007]

I noticed that energy Drain seems to be on a minute long cool down but we still only get two stacks of aetherflow from it. This should be reconsidered. With a lot more instant casts it seems and summoner remaining mobile keeping more oGCD's is very important, so I would suggest keeping the cool down on it at 30 seconds to keep the job feeling busy.

Retro Edit: Now that I see that Ruin 4 procs only ONCE off of aether flow and that there is no on call OGCD to get the opener moving, I would say this is another thing that needs to be re-considered. Right now based on what we saw from Yoshi's play through, there will be a lot of clipping in the summoner opener with trying to get out everything as you ramp to bahamut. Ruin 4 being tied to a minute long cool down on energy drain doesn't seem like the best idea. Maybe making it a charged action would work better.

[Mezzoforte]

I noticed that energy Drain seems to be on a minute long cool down but we still only get two stacks of aetherflow from it. This should be reconsidered. With a lot more instant casts it seems and summoner remaining mobile keeping more oGCD's is very important, so I would suggest keeping the cool down on it at 30 seconds to keep the job feeling busy.

Retro Edit: Now that I see that Ruin 4 procs only ONCE off of aether flow and that there is no on call OGCD to get the opener moving, I would say this is another thing that needs to be re-considered. Right now based on what we saw from Yoshi's play through, there will be a lot of clipping in the summoner opener with trying to get out everything as you ramp to bahamut. Ruin 4 being tied to a minute long cool down on energy drain doesn't seem like the best idea. Maybe making it a charged action would work better.

There is no ramp up to bahamut.

[Roda]

There is no ramp up to bahamut.

Bahamut IS the ramp up this time, paradoxically.

[MartaDemireux]

Honestly, I can't ask for much as this change is extremely close to what I wanted a year ago:

At this point I really want the egis to go away and the demi system expanded on. Have one demi path for AoE and one demi path for ST.

Carbuncle could be the initial demi that starts the ramp up to Bahamut (AoE) and Phoenix (ST). There could be a midway demi for each path as well. Perhaps there could be 3 midway demis per path (grouped by umbral and astral elements) and which one you summon is randomly pulled from available summons (ST (Garuda/Ramuh/Ifrit) VS AoE (Titan/Leviathan/Shiva)) and just visually different like how Eos and Selene are now. Or perhaps go all out on the demi system and go Carbuncle > Ifrit > Garuda > Ramuh > Phoenix / Carbuncle > Titan > Leviathan > Shiva > Bahamut.

But of course all demis would need demi appropriate appearances. And Carbuncle glamours could stay the same or go the way of Eos/Selene and have 3 spells where you only set one of them to bar.

I'd also like their core kit reworked to feature non-core primal animations. Like Odin could come and do Festers attack equivalent. GKMM could be Banes equivalent. Etc.

But I would still like some other side summon representation. I also think they could add reskins of Garuda (Leviathan puddles), Titan (Shiva kicks/swords/bows), and Ifrit (Ramuh lightning casts) that are activated after Phoenix to balance out the 6 elements.

[Dyvid]

Honestly this is just one giant bowl full of missed opportunities.

Let's talk about DoTs first:
* Years ago someone made a good suggestion that you should change DoTs cast animation from Spells to Summons. For example when you cast Miasma, Bismarck would attack with a splash bubble effect. Bio would summon Diablos sending a Demi Blob at the target. This would make players feel like they are summoning without removing anything from the job.
* What is the point of Tri-D, Bane, or Fester now?

Let's talk about Summon Stance dancing:
* Why oh why didn't they just change the Egi into a primal for 15s like when Bahamut or Phoenix is summoned, only smaller say the size of a Hume. Literally what people have been asking for since 2.0.
* The opener should be Aetherflow that charges the three element stances, going through all three stance unlocks Demi phase.
* None of the player casted spells shown have any relation to what abilities and spells the Primals use. Feather rain, Plume, Landslide? Feels more like a Geomancer than Summoner.
* Should have made it following the Elemental Wheel. Going the correct order would add a damage buff. For example: Garuda > Ifrit > Shiva. Ramuh > Titan > Leviathan.
* Speaking of Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan; where are they?! You could have made the 2 sets equaling all 6 primals? Garuda - Ifrit - Shiva -> Bahamut; Ramuh - Titan - Leviathan -> Phoenix.

How about pets:
* Are they still a thing or just glorified minions?
* Do Egi's still have Egi Assault or just set to boring auto attack?
* Did you fix the ghosting issue with Demi or are they still going to miss commands because of movement?

This is going to be one odd rotation for a 120s timer. Demi's are set to 15s while Stances are 30s. Demi > Stance > Stance > Stance > Demi (15s, 30s, 30s, 30s, 15s)? Just would make more sense to me for a Stance > Stance > Stance > Demi > Stance > Stance > Stance > Demi (15s + 15s +15s = Demi 15s) > (15s + 15s + 15s = Demi 15s).