Adventurer in need

[Alxyzntlct]

The DPS queue times seem to go up as you level. When I was in ARR, I'd wait 5-8 mins for a DPS queue. By the time I reached shadowbringers, I was waiting 20+ minutes. At least that's how it was on Leviathan (Primal). Crystal seems to have similar wait times so far but I'm only in the 60 level ranges.

As for the Tank/Healer shortage, it's not unique to this game and happens in every grouping system that relies on the Holy Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer). GW2 implemented a self sufficient system that required no specific roles to be played, good on them for shaking up the standard, but it personally wasn't for me. Tried it, hated it; I love my holy trinity. I've always been a healer at heart, from my old WoW days to today in FFXIV, it's just something I enjoy doing but it's not given to everyone I guess. I don't think any manner of incentive will ever change the fact that most people apparently prefer playing DPS roles. If anything, they'll feel forced to play Healers and tanks for said rewards and be bitter about this, thus creating unnecessary tensions in groups.

I feel like the current system is fair. Play a needed role if you want shorter queues or stick to DPS and prepare yourself for longer queues. I personally play Ninja for quests and duties, since they're designed with DPS classes in mind, and play white mage for dungeons, trials and other group content. Best of both worlds!

Out of the entire thread, I agree with this perspective the most. For all intents and purposes, I feel like the current system is fine.

The reasoning:
If/when I want to play DPS, I play it. And I enjoy it! And yes, that does mean at times if I want to do a dungeon then I have to wait for a queue, but this game also has a TON of other stuff to do in the meantime. I've seen what others have noted, that queue times can get up to 20-30min, but I don't mind that at all. Sometimes it's 5 or less, sometimes more. Either way, I don't mind because I recognize that I'm playing DPS which is super common and again, there's plenty else for me to do with my time while I wait.

Conversely, I also love Tanking and Healing! I do 95% of my daily DF runs as one of those two roles; I'll just bounce between them depending on what's needed. And of course, the queues are usually either instant or just a few minutes. I'm good with that too since it means that a need is being fulfilled (not just by me, but by anyone who so chooses).

If players only want to play a single role, then so be it, they're making a choice that affects their experiences. That's part n' parcel to the entire situation. If they want something different, then there's every means currently to do just that, it simply requires exploring new options and learning.

Regarding the whole 4-person vs 5-person small team setup... After having played WoW for 15+ years and having moved over to FFXIV, I find myself greatly preferring the 4-person setup. I personally find it makes for a more 'balanced' mindset in general, while overloading on DPS tends to lean more toward the gogogo mindset which I absolutely detest. Don't get me wrong, I've seen a few pushy Tanks or Healers that were apparently late for a hot date and just HAD to get that dungeon done nownownow, but I see a great deal less of it in this game than I did WoW.

So, yeah... I know it doesn't help some of the folks who focus primarily on DPS in this thread in making their lives easier specifically in the manner they want, but to be fair, there are other options that can be explored. I did it, and it didn't require any great modicum of additional time or effort, so it's something I'm confident most if not all folks could do as well.

[Bsrking5]

Yea, why not. Add more of a bribe to play those non-dps roles. That will go over well, just like how raubahn extreme savage went over.

[Penthea]

As it is, the "in need" bonus is paltry at best and insulting at worst.

I don't know about now but there was a time in WoW in which their version of "in need" gave a much cooler bonus than we currently have in FFXIV. And it didn't fix the queues at all. I'm sure more people did tank and heal to get those satchels but it wasn't enough to make a noticeable difference.

Many people shy away from tanking and healing because they don't want to deal with the responsibility those roles have. It's not because the classes aren't fun to play, it's because if you mess up even once with your class abilities you could cause a wipe. To some people that's too much pressure. That isn't to say most people are unable to deal with that responsibility, but being able to deal with it and being okay with dealing with it are not the same thing.

I have been told that I'm a pretty good tank by some amazing tanks. But I rarely tank. I find it too stressful to be leading the charge. I don't like being in any sort of spotlight. I'd rather be in a position in which that as long as I play well no one is really paying much attention to me. So I heal or dps because unless I do something really wrong I'm basically invisible. Not the case when you're a tank. No amount of rewards from duty finder would make me tank more. Yes I hate the spotlight that much.

I mostly heal, but I heal because I find it fun. Not because I get any in-game reward for it. For me the joy of the role is the reward. The "in need" bonuses in WoW and FFXIV never made me heal at any time I otherwise would not. Often my role is in need and it has never made me do that roulette instead of what I initially intended to do when I opened the DF window.

I'm not saying "in need" is an inherently bad idea. I'm just saying it has zero impact on what I choose to do in the game. And it would appear that this is the case for a large number of people considering the state of the queues. It seems to only noticeably change in favour for dps when a new tank or healer comes to the game, and then things go back to how they were.

[Dogempire]

Snip.

Yeah, people who are compatible with the tank/healer playstyle and would play it as their main role are kind of rare compared to DPS mains. You can give people any reward you want but once that reward is gone people will go back to their main job, so there's not much of a point in offering absurd "In-need" bonuses.

That being said, as a tank main the extra gil is pretty nice so kind of hard to complain about free money just for enjoying playing a tank

[Xuto-cxb]

Well, first I want to say that I didn't expect half the replies I got. I fully expected a few at most and then the thread to get buried in about five minutes flat. So thanks to everyone who felt it was worth sharing their thoughts on all this (minus the...rather heated bit about party size).

Pretty much everyone seems to disagree with me that any in bonus boost would make a difference, and after having taken the time to read through everything I'd have to say I am convinced you all have the right of it. There IS a mindset component to playing tank or healer, and no reasonable boost will change that. Larger ones will only result in people playing classes they don't want to and trying to rush to get it over with, leading to all sorts of quality of life and gameplay experience hits. I can attest firsthand about the mindset, especially with tanking. I've always enjoyed healing, big green numbers and hauling the party away from certain death give me the good brain juices. Content that cuts into the MT or chucks out big AOE's are just cotton candy to me.

Tanking I always wanted to try, but was too afraid to. Eventually I picked up DRK because I liked the aesthetic and the nifty dark magic type attacks and abilities they have. Started with guildhests to build confidence in basic positioning and aggro management. Then started doing low level dungeons, then eventually I got comfortable enough to do roulette's and never looked back. I plan to level the other tanks as well for more variety. I wonder sometimes if I am the exception to the rule, and most simply shy away from giving it a shot.

And then of course there are so MANY dps jobs, the variety alone can be enticing. I'm no exception here, I've been leveling a few myself. They're flashy, they have fun weave rotations, fun to pop off with. But...then eventually I get bored and want something more demanding. I always end up wanting to tank or heal again. And FFXIV IMO does a good job of giving the tanks and healers some really flashy abilities and neat ways to handle things the higher you get. Agree with the one guy who said I wish I had more damage spells though. A simple 1,2,3 rotation would be nice to have. Look cool, too.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you again to everyone who took the time to respond. It was really nice to hear all the feedback so I wasn't wondering about this in a vacuum. And it was REALLY nice that everyone was so civil and polite about it. Even though it was clearly an awful idea on my part, no one made me feel like an idiot.

Cheers.

[ItMe]

The "in need" bonuses in WoW and FFXIV never made me heal at any time I otherwise would not. Often my role is in need and it has never made me do that roulette instead of what I initially intended to do when I opened the DF window.

I'm not saying "in need" is an inherently bad idea. I'm just saying it has zero impact on what I choose to do in the game. And it would appear that this is the case for a large number of people considering the state of the queues. It seems to only noticeably change in favour for dps when a new tank or healer comes to the game, and then things go back to how they were.

Hahah that's interesting to me because I'm the opposite.
I almost never run roulettes without 3-5 other friends with me so when everyone is all "what does everyone wanna play?" I'll take a quick peek at the roulettes and say, "I'd like to play [in need role] if that's all right."

I def agree though that for the majority they don't seem too swayed by the bonuses.

[Fyrebrand]

I mostly heal, but I heal because I find it fun. Not because I get any in-game reward for it.

Of course, but incentives can still be effective in nudging players toward trying new things they wouldn't naturally gravitate to. In my case, the whole reason I first tried healing was because the DPS queues at the time were abysmal. We're talking 75+ minutes for a mandatory MSQ dungeon necessary to progress (this was several years ago). I was almost ready to quit the game, but for whatever reason I decided to at least try leveling a Conjurer simply because I knew healer queues were much shorter. I'm still baffled why I even gave it a shot, since I played a Holy Paladin healer in WoW for a long time and hated every minute of it. Anyway, luckily for me, I ended up loving Conjurer/White Mage and that has been my main job ever since. It goes without saying, if I didn't end up enjoying being a healer then I wouldn't have kept playing in that role -- but I needed that external push to experiment and try it out, and heck am I ever glad I did. I dare say, it completely changed what sort of characters/roles I'm instinctively drawn to in any new RPG, online or offline or tabletop, etc.

Even today, White Mage is still my main job, but as it becomes vastly overleveled I turn to alternative jobs. I like Summoner a lot, but it is relegated to only open-world or solo content and handing in quests. When it comes time to do a dungeon, I swap over to Astrologian to avoid long waits in queue. It's not that I am ever playing a job that I don't enjoy, but the institutional pressures that the game employs push me to be strategic about what content I choose to play as certain roles.

[SturmChurro]

I mostly play tank in DF - except for raids/trials where I play healer (I prefer healer). This is due to achievement progress for tank that I can passively gain while doing dungeons. I won't do it without the adventurer in need bonus, as there is no point doing them otherwise. If I wanted to directly work on my tank mount achievements there are better methods for gaining clears. I do not think the once daily 'adventurer in need' bonus is the core issue here though, this game has more than enough of a playerbase to fill the queues. It's that players don't want to play tank/healer, either due to how those roles play or perceptions of them. Healer especially at the moment. Most players will queue as DPS, even if there is a bonus for playing one of the other roles. The solution would require more than just this.

[kaynide]

Just more information, perspective, really:

SE has the data and has tried a lot of ways to encourage more people to play Tanks/Healers, but the playerbase till overwhelmingly plays DPS roles. Especially Tanks are a least preferred job to play overall.

Tanks get:
-A regular "In Need" bonus (not 100%, but very often this is the case)
-Their own achievement lines including 2 mounts PER Tank.

Healers get:
-A regular "In Need" bonus (also not 100% of course)
-One mount to encourage leveling Conjurer/White Mage.

~~

I expect this kind of trend to continue and should Healers also be very widely disliked/unplayed I would expect more "Carrots" to encourage play there as well.

[Rinhi]

Most players will queue as DPS, even if there is a bonus for playing one of the other roles.

I don't know about others, if I'm not leveling the class, because I know that there will be at least one DPS that does decent damage if I queue as a DPS :P

never had that long of a wait when I was leveling my dps.

lucky!