Adventurer in need

[Xirean]

There's 10 DPS, 4 Tanks, & 3 Healers. It doesn't really matter how much fun it is to play a role or what kind of rewards you put on it. There are just more DPS. If we had 10 Tanks and 4 DPS, this situation would look very different.

[Xuto-cxb]

There IS an argument to be made for incentivizing those who already want to play tank healer to keep coming back, to help more groups and DPS players get going. But if you make it too valuable, I feel like there is also a risk of attracting the wrong people to the role and making the experience worse for everyone. Maybe...

Hmm. Maybe there's a balance where they could boost the incentives enough to encourage those who already like playing those roles to hit the roulettes up more, thus enriching more people's time in the game, but not so much it's attracting people who don't want to do the job to begin with. As I said, I enjoy doing them, because getting plopped into a random dungeon with people that, at least for me, more often than not is a generally entertaining experience. Not the most CHALLENGING, but it helps people out, and I enjoy helping people new to content have a better experience. But even I have my limits, and I hit them pretty quick. I DON'T like crafting or gathering. I don't in any game. I'm not asking to be made a mad gillionaire overnight with roulettes but, why not give people who already want to tank/heal some rewards for being willing to help pop in and get groups moving?

Maybe SE has already looked at this. Maybe it will attract too many bots. Maybe their data shows it risks braking the economy. Maybe their data shows higher rewards start attracting the wrong people. I don't know. But I certainly would do them more if the rewards were better. Like for leveling I can get about 11k gil for the in need bonus. But raids, trials? 1300. 5/6/7 isn't much better.

[Kes13a]

There IS an argument to be made for incentivizing those who already want to play tank healer to keep coming back, to help more groups and DPS players get going. But if you make it too valuable, I feel like there is also a risk of attracting the wrong people to the role and making the experience worse for everyone. Maybe...

Hmm. Maybe there's a balance where they could boost the incentives enough to encourage those who already like playing those roles to hit the roulettes up more, thus enriching more people's time in the game, but not so much it's attracting people who don't want to do the job to begin with. As I said, I enjoy doing them, because getting plopped into a random dungeon with people that, at least for me, more often than not is a generally entertaining experience. Not the most CHALLENGING, but it helps people out, and I enjoy helping people new to content have a better experience. But even I have my limits, and I hit them pretty quick. I DON'T like crafting or gathering. I don't in any game. I'm not asking to be made a mad gillionaire overnight with roulettes but, why not give people who already want to tank/heal some rewards for being willing to help pop in and get groups moving?

Maybe SE has already looked at this. Maybe it will attract too many bots. Maybe their data shows it risks braking the economy. Maybe their data shows higher rewards start attracting the wrong people. I don't know. But I certainly would do them more if the rewards were better. Like for leveling I can get about 11k gil for the in need bonus. But raids, trials? 1300. 5/6/7 isn't much better.

I enjoy healing, I dont do the roulettes to get the rewards aside from the tomestones. Increasing rewards will 100% make things worse. they already have an issue with "enticing" people to be mentors with a reward and that hasnt turned out well for the mentorship system. increasing the rewards wont encourage people to play a tank or healer because I would say a majority of the time, people play what they are comfortable playing, and in my experience, most people are comfortable playing dps classes. This is not some new movement in mmo's, it has been this way for as long as I can remember in pretty much all mmo's I know of.

people already complain about the skill levels in roulettes, you want to make it worse? increase the rewards to that people that either dislike the job or are unskilled at them decide they will do it for the rewards instead of because they want to.

[TaleraRistain]

There IS an argument to be made for incentivizing those who already want to play tank healer to keep coming back, to help more groups and DPS players get going. But if you make it too valuable, I feel like there is also a risk of attracting the wrong people to the role and making the experience worse for everyone.

Like when they gave White Mage the Blood Lily and it attracted the green dps crowd who don't want to actually support their party. We were not that popular before. People have a tendency to flock to the new hotness and the flavor of the month. I imagine we'll see a lot of Sages with Endwalker.

I don't want a rotation. I want unpredictable damage to heal. Right now you can memorize and preplan all the big damage spikes in the game. If you had to be more spontaneous with your healing instead of "broil til raidwide" i think it'd fix a lot.

This could also extend to dungeon bosses.

What you're asking for is to make the boring parts less boring. I'm asking to remove the boring parts.

Besides, i play on controller. I don't want to have to find spots for a handful of new DPS actions. I'd probably not use them just to save hotbar space.

Same. I'd rather do what's in the name of the role and have that be a necessary part of the group. I don't need a dps rotation. I'm playing the healer. I want to focus on that. If I wanted to dps, I'd run with my Dancer or Bard.

[Larirawiel]

There's 10 DPS, 4 Tanks, & 3 Healers. It doesn't really matter how much fun it is to play a role or what kind of rewards you put on it. There are just more DPS. If we had 10 Tanks and 4 DPS, this situation would look very different.

Sorry but this is not true.

The problem with too few tanks/healers had every MMO i played regardless of their role/class/group concepts. FF14 is not an exception here. There are plenty MMOs which are way more DPS friendly in their concepts compared to FF14. In WoW you have 3 DPS of 5 people in a group and more tanking/healing capable classes. And you have still a huge lack of tanks and healers etc.

The point is, tanks and healers are pretty useless outside of group content. And there are not so many players that will level those classes/jobs only for raidlogging at max level.

Another point is, especially in FF14 this is a huge factor: tanks and healers are DPS jobs in disguise. As a tank you have basically the exact same play style like a DPS job: you are doing a rotation and you pop some CDs. So why play a handicapped DPS job when you could play a real one? There is nothing special to play a tank that makes a real difference compared to a DPS job. The mobs are looking at you? So what?

And as a healer the gameplay is way more boring because you have a one-button DPS rotation. And sometimes you heal the tanks/the group with a instant heal spell or you rezz a dead player.

But again, those problems had every MMO i played.

Cheers

[rewd]

Tanking and healing have been scaled down to be considerably easier but the numbers haven't budged much because most people don't like having responsibility beyond being in charge of the pew pew big numbers.

Plus let's be honest, the dps jobs are a lot cooler looking, have much more thought put into their design, and DPS deaths usually don't get other people killed or cause a wipe.

If SE ever wants to deal with the numbers disparity between roles then they definitely need to make tanking/healing more inherently satisfying, because as it stands tanks are barely any different from DPS, and healers are so dumbed down that skilled healers are rare because why the heck would someone with the skills of a CEO find flipping burgers at a McDonald's satisfying as a main job?

It has nothing to do with that. People just don't want more responsibility.

[SherlottaEryut]

A lot of people deem tanking and healing overly stressful and hectic, it’s a matter of people breaking out of that barrier and just see it in a whole new light.

I was petrified of healing at first because I had thoughts of “ohhh… what if everyone dies? I don’t want to be responsible for a failed dungeon” I started out as a white Mage and everything was perfectly fine, because I must admit, this game has an outstanding variety of beginner dungeons that ease you into any job and gradually work your skills up.

Now? I’ve accepted we’re human and mistakes can be made from both my part and team mates. Sometimes I can’t help it if people run into AOE and with little health and get killed, you just got to pick them back up and carry on.

It really is a matter of people breaking away from the safety of the DPS and try out the different jobs that come with responsibility. Not much we can do other than encourage people it’s not so bad

[GrimGale]

What blows my mind, is Square Enix looked at all the other MMORPGs that came before -- with five-person parties of one tank, one healer, and three DPS -- and said: "How about we take this bad situation, and make it even worse? How about two DPS!?" Although, I assume they were forced into this decision due to "PS3 limitations" or server issues, or some other variety of hellish FFXIV 1.0 curse that they inherited.



I have to disagree there. I love healing, I feel quite comfortable in that role, and I don't feel like "lack of pressure" equates to fun. On the contrary, the sense of responsibility is exhilarating and makes me feel important. I prefer having a more holistic perspective of my party and how everybody is doing, and having to improvise on the fly, rather than succumbing to a preordained DPS "rotation." Plus, it feels good to be able to lend a safety net to newbies who are struggling with mechanics. I just feel compelled to take care of all my little dungeon babies!

Also, as someone who doesn't always have the greatest self-esteem or confidence in real life, healing is an extremely rewarding gameplay style. It tends to stamp out self-doubt real quick, because there is just no denying when you did a damn good job. You can feel it in your bones, and it doesn't matter what anybody else says or if you get any commendations.

That said, I do understand the shift in responsibilities when you play DPS. There is a certain weight taken off your back, but on the other hand it comes with other stressors. For example, doing primals as a melee DPS freaks me the f*ck out. I don't have the complete view of the area I would prefer, I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off, I just want this whole thing to be over. Also, every single time I play my ninja character in a dungeon -- I swear, the tank pulls a bunch of mobs, pauses to wait for me to place down Doton, and then sprints away just to spite me. I consistently ask myself, "Why should I even try?" I have no idea if I'm a good or a bad DPS. Whatever the case, it all feels the same. There's no feedback, no appreciation. I could be doing a phenomenal job, executing mechanics perfectly, and no one cares.

I too derive satisfaction out of the responsability towards my party as a healer. I just wish I could contribute more to the party progression than casting the same boring one target damage spell over and over.

[Jeeqbit]

I too derive satisfaction out of the responsability towards my party as a healer. I just wish I could contribute more to the party progression than casting the same boring one target damage spell over and over.

You could try Astrologian, where you can also use cards to buff others' damage.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Tank and healer are seen as more stressful because there's more focus on them, and some people don't want the pressure. Healer in particular depends on the rest of the party's competence, and, well, check out the Tales From the Duty Finder thread for plenty of stories about that.

Also, some people just want to see the big damage numbers from DPS jobs. Dark knight has giant swords and lots of edgy spikey stuff, but black mages make things go boom.