*SPOILERS* Terrified for the remaining Scions!

[MikkoAkure]

Want to know what wouldn't make sense right now with a time bubble? That every expansion up until now was done in a single year. THAT is far worse of a nonsensical logic, and I question the sanity of anybody, ANYBODY who believes such rubbish. No, the fanmade timelines make more sense.

That's the thing though. You're not supposed to think about it. This game was built more around "lot of cool stuff happening" that the writers figure out will happen when it's time to write another expansion. They've already established that there will be no time progression in interviews so that new players aren't left behind. I don't agree with that choice of style but it is what it is.

You can sit there and headcanon as much as you want or fight RPers on the "correct" timeline of events but it doesn't matter if the writers don't care and and just shrug at or dismiss questions regarding the timeline.

[Iscah]

Because he's a downgraded version of the Exarch. Dude went from a hundred + years old Crystarium leader to a shy 16 yo WoL fanboi. It makes no sense.

For the record, he's 24.

Because they explicitly state multiple times throughout the story, the farther he is from the tower, the weaker he gets. [...] So when he’s taken to the bottom of the ocean, the farthest he’s ever been, while also having been shot, really he should be the weakest he’s ever been. Yet he’s somehow able to summon 7 wol for the hades fight, despite not even being able to do that while under the full power of the crystal tower, he failed 4-5 times and that was just to get us, one person. Meanwhile he’s able to replicate it 7 times while being the farthest from the tower he’s ever been. If they had at least had him sacrifice himself to do it that would make a bit more sense than what we got.

I don't see why that is a plot hole, so much as an indication of how much power he can draw for a final desperate attempt versus how much he usually dares to use. He no longer needs to reserve his strength for the future.

From what we saw in 5.3, it may well have cost him another bout of crystallisation that we couldn't see then.

Also it took him several tries to get the summoning process right, but he called you in the end. That means he knows how to do it properly now. And there's a degree of bending story logic for the sake of gameplay – he wouldn't have summoned people if this was a movie and you weren't about to go into a gameplay trial with seven random people out of nowhere.

If that's going to spoil the whole story for you, then you're looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.

And I really don't like that they played up the all but romantic angle with him, to the point where he was willing to abandon his own granddaughter just to go gallivanting around the Source with us—that was even before Elidibus took the choice out of his hands. But most of all, I don't like how little the original G'raha Tia's existence was taken into account in the process. To me, it feels less like a fusion between their two souls and more like the Exarch has erased his past self and taken over his body.

I don't necessarily want him to die—and I doubt I'd be satisfied if he did because I dislike him as much as I do. I would much rather have had the original G'raha, awakened from the tower with no memory of the events on the First and in the future, than whatever he currently is.

I don't feel like the "wilfully abandoning Lyna" thing is as dramatic as you're making out. To some extent, yes he was planning on leaving his life as the Exarch to return to the Source. But if it weren't for Elidibus forcing things, it would have been a far calmer, measured farewell – and in any case it seems to come back to him willingly risking his own life to make sure the process is safe for the others to use.

I do agree that I would have preferred to see the Exarch truly die, and young G'raha kept as a separate person, and I do really dislike that the Exarch seems to have overwritten him.

Though, given it's happened and we have to go with it, my very headcanony take to justify it all is that they didn't quite merge but are sort of simultaneously in control of the same body, whether aware of it or not, and most of the time they just think the same way but if they disagree then whoever feels stronger about a thing ends up acting on it.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well. I need to fanfic this sometime. Still, it works enough for me.

his only wish was for us to carry his crystal with us on our adventures so that we'd always have him close, but of course we had to fuse his soul with source graha's

I'm not sure where you're getting that impression from. It was already established as the plan that the Exarch would be a "test case" for the soul vessel because he had a body back in the Source so the transfer process could be tested. (Again overlooking the fact that the soul in that body might be regarded as a separate person with a choice in the matter, but I think the whole thing just shows that the writer(s) didn't see it as an issue.)

Of course we kind of stuffed up the test case thing by waking the other Scions up first, but it was still explicitly the intent.

[KizuyaKatogami]

For the record, he's 24.




I don't see why that is a plot hole, so much as an indication of how much power he can draw for a final desperate attempt versus how much he usually dares to use. He no longer needs to reserve his strength for the future.

From what we saw in 5.3, it may well have cost him another bout of crystallisation that we couldn't see then.

Also it took him several tries to get the summoning process right, but he called you in the end. That means he knows how to do it properly now. And there's a degree of bending story logic for the sake of gameplay – he wouldn't have summoned people if this was a movie and you weren't about to go into a gameplay trial with seven random people out of nowhere.

If that's going to spoil the whole story for you, then you're looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.

I’d rather you not try and assume that i’m “looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.” You can make all the excuses you want. Fact of the matter is it 100% clashes with the build up they did throughout the entire story, showing how weak he gets from the tower and how far he is. He was away from the tower for, if i’m being generous, a day. This was after already almost collapsing in kholusia. He was then dragged the farthest he’s ever been from his power source. He called us in the end yes, but again, that was while under the full power of the tower. He replicates that 7 times at the end when he really shouldn’t have even been able to do it once. The fact they don’t even explain it proves it just makes no sense and is absolutely a plot hole. Again, a final desperate attempt would make sense if it was him using his life energy or something to do it. But he does it with no consequence and as a clash against the own plot threads they built up. I wouldn’t care as much, if it wasn’t something they built up and mentioned numerous times in the story, as if it would eventually lead to something. But they did nothing with it and instead went against those very points they made. It’s a plot hole, end of discussion. I’m not looking for things to be unhappy about. I’m pointing out poor writing which i know is taboo around here. Pointing out things the story does wrong because ShB is just so amazing.

[Allegor]

To be fair, if aether is anything like MP, and it's something with, for lack of a better word, inconsistent volume [something very common in anime tropes], nothing says he couldn't recharge at least a bit of his energy while 'resting" in isolation and used all that he had left in that last fight. The issue wouldn't have been him doing all that, but rather, showing no lasting effects of doing so, if not being on a full on comma until idk, 5.1 - Plot armor isn't necessarily the same as plot hole

That said, I'm just saying this as what ifs so they can be taken with a grain of salt.

[Lauront]

I do hate to keep going on about this—I'd much rather talk about things I like. Like existential horror, dragons, primals, voidsent, and basically everything except G'raha. But since it was asked...

I don't like that the Exarch's death was written to overshadow Elidibus's. I don't like that his death was also played up as such a bittersweet tragedy when it was plainly obvious they weren't really going to kill him. And I really don't like that they played up the all but romantic angle with him, to the point where he was willing to abandon his own granddaughter just to go gallivanting around the Source with us—that was even before Elidibus took the choice out of his hands. But most of all, I don't like how little the original G'raha Tia's existence was taken into account in the process. To me, it feels less like a fusion between their two souls and more like the Exarch has erased his past self and taken over his body.

I don't necessarily want him to die—and I doubt I'd be satisfied if he did because I dislike him as much as I do. I would much rather have had the original G'raha, awakened from the tower with no memory of the events on the First and in the future, than whatever he currently is. But since that's never happening, I'd settle for him getting the Gaius treatment. Put him into some side content that ends with him settling into his new lot in life, far away from the rest of the story. And he if does have to remain relevant until then, don't make the story revolve around him as much as Shadowbringers did. Let him be just another Scion, no more important or special than the rest.

Well put, and agreed.

Yep. We never lose - not, at least, on a strategic level. Final Fantasy used to take risks - in FFVI, we were defeated; we killed Kefka, but it was heavily implied that millions perished, and the world was irrevocably altered. We won, but we lost... and our victory couldn't reverse what had occured on our watch: burned cities, continents sundered, and magic (and a race of ancient magical beings) snuffed out. We failed, and others paid. It made the payoff at the end as much about revenge as rejoicing - it was a hollow victory, and because of that, it felt real.

I'm still waiting for FFXIV to hand us a situation like that - where the WoL comes up short, and there is no easy recovery. Something tells me that I'll be left disappointed. This story is just so nonchalant when it comes to perils and penalties. We simply do not experience anything more significant than minor setbacks.

It's telling that they couldn't even allow that for the alternate timeline, IMO. If any antagonist thus far should've been able to inflict such a fate, it should have been either of Emet-Selch or Elidibus. Now they didn't decide to go that route with the former, because he had an emotional connection to the protagonist's ancient persona, so there was ample potential to utilise the latter and his connection to Zodiark for such a thing.

It's honestly difficult to take the empire or the ascians seriously anymore. All they are doing is getting defeated by the WoL/Scions/Eorzia. It's ridiculous how all city states still have the same leaders, none of them ever being in real danger, while the Garleans lost one legatus after another and their emperor. No even to mention that we killed all three unsundered Ascians while the Scions have huge plot armor.
I don't have much hope anything will change in Endwalker. Anything other than a glorious victory against Zenos and Zodiark with minimal loses for the WoL and his team of goody good guys would surprise me.

It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It's a pretty typical anime/video game trope for a heroic character to have that last desperate surge of strength despite them being at death's door seconds before. It's also a well-established fact in this game that a strong enough emotion or desire can generate power. And given that the game is, despite touching on darker themes, overall a heroic fantasy story, I don't really feel like it stands out that much.

I do wish they'd actually shown the scene of the Exarch merging with the younger G'raha. If they'd actually had some dialogue, maybe come to an understanding, made any effort to make it work, it might've helped. But with 5.3 running long already, I guess they decided that had to hit the chopping block.

[Theodric]

It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

Likewise.

The writers would do well to remember that there is no small amount of Ascian and Garlean fans out there who have been waiting years for a satisfying conclusion to one or both story arcs. I certainly wouldn't bother following this game's story based on the Scions or City State leaders alone. With the exception of Hien, I find them to be rather bland and disposable.

One also has to wonder why, in a fantasy setting, so many characters end up being forced to adhere to modern day real world takes on morality instead of something with a bit more depth and grit. I find myself rolling my eyes every time a 'problem' arises for the protagonists - especially since the game wastes a lot of time showing them sitting around a table fretting over the latest issue only to just overcome it anyway by throwing the Warrior of Light at it.

Worse yet, the characters who do not have the plot convenience of the Warrior of Light to lean upon are then forced to rely on more questionable methods as a consequence and are then dragged through the coals for daring to not just roll over and die.

It makes for a very childish story and I do hope that 6.0 proves to be bolder. With any luck, the recent influx of WoW players who are used to consequences will balance out the voices calling for nothing bad to ever happen to any of the supposed 'good guys' ever.

[TheMightyMollusk]

WoW players who are used to consequences

This is a joke, right?

[Kolsykol]

WoW players who are used to consequences

Eh... Elaborate?

[Theodric]

This is a joke, right?

Why would it be? I'll be the first to admit that WoW often went in the opposite direction and had a little too much destruction and death but it was hardly lacking in consequences and leadership positions were always at risk of changing to prevent stagnation, entire settlements were wiped off of the map and even beloved lore characters were at risk of being slain to prove that the latest big bad was, in fact, a major threat.

Equally, there's also ESO - which also serves as a competitor to FFXIV and also embraces consequences fairly often. I've found many side quests to be rather poignant and bittersweet in that game due to even some of the 'good' choices resulting in negative consequences.