Remove Extremes from Mentor Roulette

[CKNovel]

I'd say keep them.

It's great that sprout tries a content a minimum hard, it's not what will help them learn the game but it might set barriers.
Yeah I avoided mentor roulette like plague until now and cleared a few but going to older EX trials when I have nothing to do is... Pleasant.

You see sprout learning, of course some people claim that we needs to remain positive, then "wtf guys are u serius".
I did not saw Niddhog EX for years and clearing it again with sprout is fun.

However I wish people would stay in the party, most "mentors" quit after only 15 mins. At least increase the Extreme trials rewards, makes it count for 10 clears toward the achievements or something.

[Eien713]

I think mentors should stop excusing their own laziness and either stop doing the roulette just for the rewards if they're unwilling to do their job, or quit blaming others for their own shortcomings and help others do their best while they do their own. Multiple times i've seen a bunch of mentore, as in multiple mentors, in a duty and none of them explain jack, so their job fall on someone elses shoulders who didn't even sign up to help. They just did it because it would help everyone complete the duty and they got no extra rewards for doing it. Unlike you pompous lot, i won't say that all mentors do that, but many do. "Anecdotal evidence"? Yeah, exactly like your unbelievably unrealistic claims.

Allow me to share my experience as a mentor. Whenever I got an extreme trial, the first thing I'd ask is: "Do we need to explain the fight before we start?" or "Do people know what to do?" (Sometimes I'd ask if people watched a guide beforehand.)

There are 3 types of answers I usually got:
1) Yes, please explain. (fairly common)
2) No, I didn't watch a guide. (very common)
3) Silence and/or instanpull. (extremely common)

I never start by explaining the mechanics immediately. I ask first if people want them explained because I honestly don't wanna type walls upon walls of text if there's no need to (not to mention that some fights can't be explained via text only). There's also the language barrier. I don't speak German, so when I see most of the party has only D highlighted as their language and they don't respond to anything I write in chat, I know it's a lost cause.

People are very negative toward mentors and expect too much of them. You call mentors lazy, but what of the people who don't make an effort to watch a guide before queuing or don't wanna watch one even after you ask them to at the start of the fight? I had instances where I asked people to watch a guide (while we waited to get new members, so we were doing nothing anyway) because there were too many mechanics in the fight to explain clearly via text, and do you know what their response was? Silence for a few minutes followed by a swift leave.

I never understood people who don't wanna watch guides. If you're not good enough to pick up on mechanics on the fly and learn a fight decently quickly, then you're holding everyone else back. What's the difference between watching a guide that explains things very clearly using footage, and inconveniencing another person by making them type walls of text that don't explain things nearly as well as a video? Either way, you're not going in blind to discover the fight--you're being fed the mechanics. But in case one, you make an effort. In case two, you're too lazy and you inconvenience another person and/or are expecting to get carried.

The way I see it, by getting a mentor in your extreme trial, you are guaranteed (hopefully) a person who knows what they're doing, so they won't hold you back. If you're someone who did their homework and looked up a guide beforehand, this mentor will definitely help you clear. They can also help you by explaining a few things you might be struggling with here and there. I don't see why it's a mentor's job to carry you. You do your part by making an effort before queuing or after being asked to watch a guide, and the mentor will do their job by not being a dead weight and by supporting you to get the clear. It's a shared effort.

[ForctyusGold]

first thing we need to do is remove any type of rewards from the mentor system then once we have mentors that have the crown to actually help people and not chase rewards/think NN is their own personal chatroom then we can start worrying about what is or isnt showing up in the mentor roulette

most mentors give the game a bad name

thats not an issue. mentors can fill some queue where people really waiting for long time and it can help them to clear things other people dont want to do aka some msq dungeons or trials or anything. doing extremes via mentor roulette .i mean . it would be much better to remove extremes from duty roulette and also remove maybe mentor system , but idk. really mentors cant remember all mechanics for every fight just because they have a crown. and what is bad for people trying to get that mount ? i hope you tried mentor roulette to see it. separate roulette would be a thing. you have also separate high-end duty roulette kinda, so it can works. or there could be some button to redirect them to create PF for it.

[FudoMyoo]

lolmentors ....

[GeminiReed]

Unfortunately this is a uniquely western problem so it's not going to be fixed. Japanese players can queue in DF for extremes and will manage to clear.

Really speaks more about the community and cultural expectations about how to play the game than anything else

The JP community is well aware that you don't dare use DF for EX or harder until you know the content cold. I'd be curious to know how they've managed to socialize that to all their new folks.

I never understood people who don't wanna watch guides. If you're not good enough to pick up on mechanics on the fly and learn a fight decently quickly, then you're holding everyone else back. What's the difference between watching a guide that explains things very clearly using footage, and inconveniencing another person by making them type walls of text that don't explain things nearly as well as a video? ...

I can watch videos until I'm blue in the face and it'll be a complete waste of time. I have to at least get through the first few mechanics before I have enough context to make sense of what's going on. Same applies for every arena swap. Even with context I much prefer a written guide since videos are very rigid in how you consume them and reserve videos only when positioning or timing is unclear.

OTOH I'd never queue for synced EX or harder unless I was with people I know and know my abilities/limitations.

[MiaShino]

I watch a streamer called Violentdestruction who happens to do mentor roulettes on the stream.

Never ever never have I seen him leave the duty when he gets Extreme trials. What I doooo see is him bashing his head against the preverbal wall until timeout or the echo carries the party across the finish line. I felt so bad for this poor man when he spent one hour attempting to assist sprouts clear Rathalos EX who just refused to read the chat. One fricken hour helping complete strangers who could not stop rapid pulling long enough for the man to explain anything.

His streams gave new perspective on mentors and what they sometimes go through. I did not treat them badly before but I am more understanding when they seem exhausted or feisty.

[Eien713]

I can watch videos until I'm blue in the face and it'll be a complete waste of time. I have to at least get through the first few mechanics before I have enough context to make sense of what's going on. Same applies for every arena swap. Even with context I much prefer a written guide since videos are very rigid in how you consume them and reserve videos only when positioning or timing is unclear.

Watching a video is the first step. Then you experience the fight for yourself and hopefully things click bit by bit. I wouldn't mind sitting through 1 hour in a trial with someone trying to make sense of a guide they watched/read because at least they made an effort. And another thing is that what people usually explain to you in chat is most likely the exact same info that a video or a written guide (if that's what you prefer) gives. It won't be anything innovative. I may say watch a video most of the time, but what I mean is to know the fight beforehand either by watching a video or reading a guide. Not gonna lie, since videos are the most common ones used, I forget that written guides even exist ^^; Also, I've personally never tanked any of the trials or high-end duties, so even as a mentor, I can't be of much help there. I may know a handful of tank mechanics, and I do know most of the tankbusters since I heal and I play a support class (BRD), but I can safely say I don't know when there are tank swaps. I don't think a mentor is required to know absolutely everything about the game and all its encounters. This is not a job. But if a tank at least watches/reads a guide, they'll come prepared with an info that I can't supply them with and that would spare the party a lot of pain.

I'd never queue for synced EX or harder unless I was with people I know and know my abilities/limitations.

Same here. I don't wanna hold anyone back, and I don't wanna put unnecessary pressure on myself.

[Xiomara]

It'd be nice if Mentor roulette only had the current expansions Extreme trials in it. I've got all the macro's and can teach the ShB fights with no issues, but I only partially remember the SB extremes and long since forgotten how to do the HW ones synced.

[Nethereal]

It'd be nice if Mentor roulette only had the current expansions Extreme trials in it. I've got all the macro's and can teach the ShB fights with no issues, but I only partially remember the SB extremes and long since forgotten how to do the HW ones synced.

Yeah I was thinking about how the success rates on clearing extremes would be in mentor roulette if everyone uses a collective text macro for all the old extremes you can get.

So people don't spend minutes explaining they just keep a few macros for the fight.

Wouldn't fix the facepullers but it is an interesting avenue.

[SomeRandomHuman]

At least increase the Extreme trials rewards, makes it count for 10 clears toward the achievements or something.

So mentors will just leave everything not an EX trial because they'd rather fish for the 10 clears per roulette? Most of the mentors out there are only mentors for the achievement rewards. They only want the mount and then they'll discard the crown forever.