Open World PvP

[Artemiz]

Is that why we’re missing so much content this expansion?While also having constant content downgrades compared to last expansion...

No, that's probably the global pandemic, you might have heard of it. With everyone working from home, and some working from a hospital bed it's kind of inevitable. The player base however is growing very nicely.

He did no such thing, though it's pretty clear to me that there's little reasoning with certain posters at this point. I also happen to know him both in-game and the real world, so I daresay I'm a far better judge of his character and intent than someone who has read a handful of his forum posts and chosen to attribute them entirely to false premises.

Personally I don't see much point in getting up in arms over a meme, either. Some people find them funny, others don't. I think that the prudent course would be to shrug and move on instead of trying to actively tarnish someone's reputation by misconstruing their contributions to a thread.

Right..... so you don't think this was meant to be insulting then..... ok

The most they seem able to handle is uwu sugoi catboi twinkle-eyes. Whether it is the story and even allowing for the possibility of character deaths, darker job concepts, content that a certain portion of this community disdains, such as open world PVP apparently, unfortunately the more vocal components of this game's community are very set in their ways and would probably see it turned into a visual novel if they could.

Also, nobody has even been insulting in this thread really, up until now. It's jsut people who disagree with you giving their reasons for it. Don't be such a wallflower. If you want to go on about in-game toxicity I would say taking joy in,

Killing noobs,
ruining weddings,
ruining funerals,
trolling gatherers,
attacking low level players,
raiding towns,
etc...

Is far worse, and all have been suggested as perfectly fine and dandy ways to enjoy yourself.

The opposition to PvP has not even been on the same scale as the people who have put up arguments wanting it and why.

[Theodric]

Right..... so you don't think this was meant to be insulting then..... ok

That's correct. I also don't believe that his assessment is wrong, given that a very vocal portion of the community is arguably preventing the game itself from having any real stakes or consequences in the story.

You might have missed how this very thread had a fair few posts arguing over that very line of reasoning in an attempt to shut down the idea of open world PvP.

Also, nobody has even been insulting in this thread really, up until now.

You must have missed the post where someone outright accused another poster of being a sociopath, then - which is a pretty horrid accusation to throw at someone over a video game of all things.

I'm also disinclined to attribute some of the more vocal opposition to this thread's premise as mere disagreements. I've been posting on this forum for years now and I've noticed a steady trend where there exists a very vocal portion of the FFXIV community that seeks to dismantle any and all suggestions to the game even if the proposal is based around something entirely optional that would not require their interaction in any conceivable way.

The individuals who do not wish to engage in open world PvP would not be forced to partake of it - leaving it to foster it's own micro-community of enthusiasts in a manner similar to the micro-communities that have popped up around A and S rank hunts. I'd also argue BLU qualifies as similarly niche content. Some people like it, others don't - but much like high stakes PvP, there's a niche for it...as this very thread proves even though it is in itself only a very narrow portion of the overall FFXIV community.

[Artemiz]

That's correct. I don't believe that his assessment is wrong, given that a very vocal portion of the community is arguably preventing the game itself from having any real stakes or consequences in the story.

You might have missed how this very thread had a fair few posts arguing over that very line of reasoning in an attempt to shut down the idea of open world PvP.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it was still written to be condescending and insulting. I don't buy the lore argument either, for what it's worth. I think the technical problems open world PvP would cause are far bigger concerns and in this game, at this stage of it's life cycle, diametrically opposed to workable PvP. They could be fixed, sure. But it would take far more resources than it deserves and would change the feel of the game dramatically.

You must have missed the post where someone outright accused another poster of being a sociopath, then - which is a pretty horrid accusation to throw at someone over a video game of all things.

It was a joke.

[Theodric]

It was a joke.

On what basis? Do you happen to know the poster in question and his intent or are you merely speculating it to be as such?

Personally I'd consider the use of a meme to be far more in line with a joke than outright calling someone a sociopath but each to their own, I suppose.

[Artemiz]

On what basis? Do you happen to know the poster in question and his intent or are you merely speculating it to be as such?

Personally I'd consider the use of a meme to be far more in line with a joke than outright calling someone a sociopath but each to their own, I suppose.

On the basis that it was obviously a joke. I know neither poster personally but it was hardly a well fleshed out psychological diagnosis was it? You might not have found it funny, fine, but don't try to make it out to be more than it was. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this, it wasn't my comment so I don't have to defend it. I just saw it as a joke, that's all.

[Theodric]

On the basis that it was obviously a joke. I know neither poster personally but it was hardly a well fleshed out psychological diagnosis was it? You might not have found it funny, fine, but don't try to make it out to be more than it was. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this, it wasn't my comment so I don't have to defend it. I just saw it as a joke, that's all.

In other words, you're willing to give someone who resorts to targeted insults a free pass due to the assumption that it is supposedly just a joke but are entirely unwilling to give someone else the benefit of the doubt when they poke fun with a meme at the expense of a vocal portion of the player base with no specific individuals singled out? is that correct or am I missing something here?

I don't want to outright assume that this is a case of moving goalposts, but I'm admittedly struggling to see it as anything but that at this point...

[Artemiz]

In other words, you're willing to give someone who resorts to targeted insults a free pass due to the assumption that it is supposedly just a joke but are entirely unwilling to give someone else the benefit of the doubt when they poke fun with a meme at the expense of a vocal portion of the player base with no specific individuals singled out? is that correct or am I missing something here?

I don't want to outright assume that this is a case of moving goalposts, but I'm admittedly struggling to see it as anything but that at this point...

I'm not moving goalposts because I'm not offended by either, I fired a very tame shot back and you got your knickers in a twist. I'm not the offended person here, you are.

Read my other post. There was loads of content missing long before covid was a thing. Nice try using it as an excuse though.

Cool, and you think the solution to this is to give the developers a huge extra work load for a feature hardly anyone else wants?

Yeah and we see what Lauront said as just memeing and a joke. But you say it's an insult.

This whole side of the argument started because I fired back, with a very tame joke. I wasn't offended by what he said, I just pointed out it wasn't exactly the wholesome brady bunch stuff people are making it out to be.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That's correct. I also don't believe that his assessment is wrong, given that a very vocal portion of the community is arguably preventing the game itself from having any real stakes or consequences in the story.

You might have missed how this very thread had a fair few posts arguing over that very line of reasoning in an attempt to shut down the idea of open world PvP.



You must have missed the post where someone outright accused another poster of being a sociopath, then - which is a pretty horrid accusation to throw at someone over a video game of all things.

I'm also disinclined to attribute some of the more vocal opposition to this thread's premise as mere disagreements. I've been posting on this forum for years now and I've noticed a steady trend where there exists a very vocal portion of the FFXIV community that seeks to dismantle any and all suggestions to the game even if the proposal is based around something entirely optional that would not require their interaction in any conceivable way.

The individuals who do not wish to engage in open world PvP would not be forced to partake of it - leaving it to foster it's own micro-community of enthusiasts in a manner similar to the micro-communities that have popped up around A and S rank hunts. I'd also argue BLU qualifies as similarly niche content. Some people like it, others don't - but much like high stakes PvP, there's a niche for it...as this very thread proves even though it is in itself only a very narrow portion of the overall FFXIV community.

The OP's post has 8 likes. probably from the die-hard pvp fans in this thread. That's not much interest really.

plus, it sounds like they want the ability to attack people who dont care for pvp at all.

[van_arn]

Also, nobody has even been insulting in this thread really, up until now. It's jsut people who disagree with you giving their reasons for it. Don't be such a wallflower. If you want to go on about in-game toxicity I would say taking joy in,

Killing noobs,
ruining weddings,
ruining funerals,
trolling gatherers,
attacking low level players,
raiding towns,
etc...

Is far worse, and all have been suggested as perfectly fine and dandy ways to enjoy yourself.

The opposition to PvP has not even been on the same scale as the people who have put up arguments wanting it and why.

All of the above take place on an opt-in pvp setting, and are part of the package. The fact that you keep repeating this as an example of toxicity (especially when it's just part of this ruleset) just underscores how you are not capable of understanding why this might be appealing for anyone (especially someone perfectly sane) to participate in.

I'm sorry, but you're out of your depth. This is why I say people that don't enjoy open pvp can't comprehend jt. It's so utterly foreign to this peaceful type of player they simply can't comprehend why anyone would want to "interrupt their gameplay" with this style of play.

If you don't want to open yourself to danger, you don't have to. For those willing to opt in, it's an amazing experience that can tell stories that can rival the best parts of the MSQ-- because the players themselves made those stories happen.

Frankly, I don't trust the judgement of much of this community over what is toxic. It can't even see toxicity in itself, let alone elsewhere.

[Jojoya]

It's more that I find that portion of the community's stance to this game to be a big reason why it's so stuck in the mud and insipid.

But the game isn't stuck in the mud and insipid. It's very good for those who want the type of game it is.

Sounds more like you're expecting the game to be something it was never intended to be.

Open world PvP would be cool but it wouldn't work with flying.

Open world PvP works just fine with flying. Did a lot of it in Outland during BC, especially around Halaa since that was designed as a world PvP hub. Also did a lot of back and forth between Honor Hold and Thrallmar. Those who wanted to PvP would be there. Those who didn't would keep their distance. Flying didn't stop it - it helped those who wanted to PvP get there faster.

What doesn't work with flying is ganking. Gankers get upset when their non-consenting targets have a potential escape route. It's weird how the gankers will then usually disappear when those who actually want to PvP start showing up to fight.

Um....we were missing content long before covid was a thing sweetie. Hate when people use that excuse when we were already very clearly missing things before it was a thing like...you’re gonna blame it on the pandemic that didn’t even exist yet?

And yet no one is giving SE credit for the new content they added. They only complain that there are fewer dungeons added without mentioning the multizone combat like Eureka and Bozja/Zadnor, or the Firmament (granted the latter will have no interest for someone who is looking for combat content).

Just because you aren't interested in what content did get added doesn't mean there is less content. There's just less that is of interest to you (and I'm going to be highly disappointed if you're actively participating in Bozja/Zadnor at the same time you're complaining about fewer dungeons).

Is Triple Triad open world? I can't remember. xD

It's not. You can only play against other players in a few designated places. ;-)

All of the above take place on an opt-in pvp setting

Are you certain about that?

It was very easy to force flag enemy players in WoW up until mid-MoP. There were dozens of little tricks to use so someone would end up flagged without their specific opt in. Even after Blizzard had addressed most of the tricks, new ones would be discovered or bugs would happen.

Let's say there are very specific PvP worlds created and open world PvP is only possible on those (which I doubt can happen considering how SE has to mirror everything world to world from the number of zone instances at expansion start to housing wards).

What about the player who just wants to get their MSQ progression or other content completed without being interrupted by PvP for a change? Tough for them, it's either PvP or don't play?

We saw what happened in WoW on PvP worlds. Players would migrate to majority faction so they didn't have to worry much about getting interrupted while doing other stuff. Those on the minority faction who didn't want to play the majority faction would abandon their characters or transfer to another world that either had their faction as the majority or was not a PvP world.

The majority faction had almost no one left to fight outside of a handful of diehards who were actually interested in world PvP. Cries of "Blizzard, do something! Make my world balanced again so I have someone to fight!" would fill the forums and yet those players who claimed they wanted to fight would never take the obivious step and change factions so they would have thousands of players to fight.

If world PvP doesn't work in the long run in a game that was supposedly designed for it, how well do you really think it's going to work in game that was not designed for world PvP at all?

Keep in mind we don't have factions as a basis for PvP here. SE had to pretty much give up on GCs for PvP and put everything into mercenary mode because players all flocked to what was perceived as the winning GC.

How many players are going to opt-in to participate when it's all FFA and any allies you recruit are subject to friendly fire?