Open World PvP

[hynaku]

I played Aion for years and left it because of the open world pvp. More and more players fought and seen where using mods and other cheats so it wasn't even fair pvp fights anymore. Open world pvp is always a fail system unless you can stop all the grievers and cheaters.

[Caurcas]

In addendum, it would be a great way to vent frustrations instead of the passive aggressive toxicity we have now.

[van_arn]

yeah, let's give max level assh*les the oportunity to keep killing low level sprouts over and over outside safe areas. Because that's fun, right?

It is actually

[Roeshel]

It is actually

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

[BaconBits]

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

Spoken like someone that has never invaded in Dark Souls.

Have we made PvP great again yet?

Not until we get a silly hat that says "Make PvP Great Again!"

Personally, I'm torn between either a Flat Cap, or a Calfskin Cap.

[Roeshel]

Spoken like someone that has never invaded in Dark Souls.

I haven't played Dark Souls. The MMORPG with an open world that I've played is Albion online. The game is free to play of course because no one in their right mind would be paying sbi to have others make them feel miserable. In that game you lose everything you have in your inventory once you are killed. So it's the perfect breeding ground for griefers. I started the game because I liked the player-driven economy and the crafting system. I did try ganking once. It is not hard finding randoms for parties that are going to gank up on people. The ganking experience was extremely unpleasant for me and I just couldn't understand how can people enjoy doing that on a daily basis. I felt pathetic doing that, I don't know how you guys don't.

[BaconBits]

I haven't played Dark Souls. The MMORPG with an open world that I've played is Albion online. The game is free to play of course because no one in their right mind would be paying sbi to have others make them feel miserable. In that game you lose everything you have in your inventory once you are killed. So it's the perfect breeding ground for griefers. I started the game because I liked the player-driven economy and the crafting system. I did try ganking once. It is not hard finding randoms for parties that are going to gank up on people. The ganking experience was extremely unpleasant for me and I just couldn't understand how can people enjoy doing that on a daily basis. I felt pathetic doing that, I don't know how you guys don't.

You should give Dark Souls 3 the old college try to be honest. Typically unless it's a solo player going about their own business, the host has more apparent advantages than an invader. Namely higher health, the ability to summon up to two additional players to their side (including password summons, which typically ignore level/weapon level restrictions and can be incredibly obnoxious to deal with despite having their stats scaled down), plus having a covenant that repeatedly summons blue phantoms specifically to deal with invaders. If they use an item known as a Dried Finger, they can summon a third player as well, though that allows one more invader to join in. Also, I might be remembering this wrongly, but there's no limit to how many times a host can summon a new phantom to their side after one of their previous summons is defeated.

In contrast, invaders that barge straight into some other player's world only comes equipped with nothing more than the armor on their backs and weapons in their hands, a whole lot of gumption, and maybe some more experience in PvP than their opponents. If they get lucky, they might get a second invader to back them up, but there's absolutely nothing stopping said second invader from turning around and sending their butt packing back to their home world. If they do decide to cooperate, then they have to deal with friendly fire and avoid accidentally slapping each other silly while the host and their band of ahem- JOLLY COOPERATORS are free to lob whatever they feel like with impunity.

In my opinion, there is no greater satisfaction than utterly dismantling a 4 man gank squad, smashing through an endless sea of Blue Phantoms, catching the host trying to run back to the bonfire to resummon their allies, and absolutely destroying them in single combat as the Gods intended...

Of course that all goes to waste if they just disconnect the router lol.

Oh, if you have a PS4 and do end up trying it out, feel free to hit me up. It's been a while since I've done a fresh run.

[Saito_S]

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

[Roeshel]

This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is. People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.

Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best

A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

[Saito_S]

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is.

Okay, to clarify (and per van_arm's most recent posts basically clarifying the same thing), I was not talking about ganking people that don't want to be ganked when I pushed back against your "self-esteem" comment. I probably could have made this more clear, but I was referring to the idea of people who DO opt-in, whether by rolling on a pvp server or ticking the opt-in box or whatever. The idea that people are ganking each other, crashing events, etc. and everyone is fine with it because they all want to participate in this whole big crazy open-world pvp system. That's what (as far as I can tell) van_arm was talking about when he insisted that some people enjoy that kind of environment, and that's what I thought you were referring to when you said "you need to have low self-esteem to enjoy this." The people getting ganked or getting their wedding crashed, etc. wouldn't seriously have a problem with it... because next week, those same people might be the ones doing the ganking and crashing.

If we are talking about literally just pure open-world pvp that is forced on everyone, with no opt-in, then yeah. I agree with you then (to a point). Enjoying ganking folks and killing gatherers and crashing events when the people you are attacking do not want to be a part of it? That's just asshole-ish. Of course, in that scenario, some blame would have to go to the devs for making the game like that and allowing it to happen. Fortunately, there is basically zero chance of non-opt-in open world pvp being added to FFXIV.

People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.
A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

This is why I said "to a point". Call them assholes or trolls or bullies, question their morals, sure. But saying "you like this, therefore, you have low self-esteem" is LITERALLY a forum diagnoses since "low self-esteem" is a psychological condition that you are concluding they have. I'll call out bully-types all day and say that I think they're crass and that it's screwed up that they find enjoyment in making other people miserable. I just don't like ascribing behavior observed in a fellow player of an online game to a specific mental state without some evidence.