Open World PvP

[Saito_S]

important part bolded.

Most of the people in this thread are not against content they won't engage in. They are against content they will be forced to be engaged in, have to change their current playstyle to avoid, and/or content that changes what they currently find "fun" about the game.


I hate Eureka. I rarely engage in EX-Ultimates.

Both are fine to be expanded. While I have my gripes about locking the relics and dyable armor behind them.. they aren't detracting from what I enjoy in the game and I can choose to engage in them at will.

Precisely. Expand Savage/Ultimate, expand/improve PVP, expand on Triple Triad. NONE of those things are things I engage in much (I do pvp here and there, but only because there are a few glams I want that are only obtained via Wolf Marks). I'm fine with all that getting more attention even though none of those things are among the aspects of the game that I really care about.

I don't know how or why the idea of opt-in open world pvp got conflated with NON opt-in open world pvp, because it seems to me that the vast, vast majority of opposition to "open-world pvp" has been if it's not opt-in. Yes, there's also some "I don't want to see too much dev time devoted to something I don't care about." Personally, I don't generally worry about that sort of thing; I get that people play the game for a variety of reasons and engage in a variety of content, so I'm cool with some dev time/resources being devoted to things I don't care about, even if that could theoretically be "at the expense of" work on content I DO care about. There can be exceptions, like if I just think something is really really worthless and would rather not see time and resources devoted to it, but that's not too common for me.

But LOTS of people in this playerbase DO care about that. There's no sense in singling out people who say this of PVP because people say this about all kinds of content - "I don't want to see (X) because I don't want the limited dev time/resources to be used on it."

That said, open-world pvp that is NOT opt-in is a terrible idea. And I'd hazard a guess that said mode of "forced" open-world pvp participation is what the VAST majority of the "anti" people in this thread (possibly 100% of them) are against. Other than discussions of it simply not being viable (because the dev team likely wouldn't be able to do a good job to implement it in a satisfying way and make the systems for it work, etc.), I don't really see people being against opt-in world pvp on principle. And for my part, if they COULD make opt-in open-world pvp work well, in a way that pvp-enthusiasts would find fun, without having to spend a disproportionately high amount of time working on it (i.e. spending way too much time/energy on it compared to other somewhat niche content), then hey sure, why not.

[SannaR]

important part bolded.

Most of the people in this thread are not against content they won't engage in. They are against content they will be forced to be engaged in, have to change their current playstyle to avoid, and/or content that changes what they currently find "fun" about the game.


I hate Eureka. I rarely engage in EX-Ultimates.

Both are fine to be expanded. While I have my gripes about locking the relics and dyable armor behind them.. they aren't detracting from what I enjoy in the game and I can choose to engage in them at will.

This exactly. I don't know when these forums started down the path of people going oh well you are against this version of an idea so you must be against all versions. There are a select few in this thread who have recently taken this stance. And seem to want to die on the various hills they take that stance on just so they can complete the cycle of the self fulfilling prophecy of no one can ask for changes to the game that may or may not be seen as popular. Just so that they then can point and cry out "See? You can't ask for something different from the normal or criticize the game. Because people don't want or agree with one aspect of something."

I'm one of those who wouldn't mind having areas or ways people can pvp as long as it's optional and the devs somehow made it satisfying. The fact that many in and outside of the pvp community see what we do have as unsatisfying doesn't help any new mode look promising.

[Nanne]

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

[SturmChurro]

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

Maybe not very many people do PvP because it sucks in FFXIV? It's not like there isn't a want for more PvP content, it's that they need to improve their PvP. If this is true, just writing off PvP because not many play it in FFXIV is concerning to me.

[Anhra]

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualisation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

[Kes13a]

The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualusation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

here is a fact that maybe you ignore, prior to WoW you may have had a point. However, WoW changed gaming by catering to casuals to bring them into gaming for more money into their coffers. after years and years of changes in the gaming industry, blaming them for the current state of anything is wearing pretty thin. the industry is no longer after the niche hardcore gamers, why? because they arent the money... hardcore gamers jump from shiney to shiney faster than casuals, not because they are fickle, but because they feel they have done everything and want a new experience. you may have a poor view of casuals, but I would be willing to bet they have kept some of your favourite games going long past their expirey date.

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

[Artemiz]

Have we made PvP great again yet?

[Anhra]

There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

True PvP players dont care about item rewards, the only true reward, is being better than someone else. That is all there is to it.

Personally, i see PvP rewards in item- /title form mainly as bait for People driven by their Greed for mounts, glamour... you name it.

can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

[Kes13a]

I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

you are still blaming the wrong people.

"casuals" as your derogatory term seems to imply, includes a large grouping of people who feel entitled to something just because (pick any reason here)

as for content X not being a feature... I would go out on a limb here and say just that about pvp, is it a feature? of course, back in the day when FFXIV was first released pvp was put into everything, but even back then, it wasnt a focus. it is not a main feature, and as such, implmentation is not as simple as flipping a switch.

the fact here is pvpers have gotten a bad rap over the years with habits of a few and breaking classes due to whining about imbalance instead of learning their kit. Developers are incapable of making pvp changes without ruining pve usually. and who drives those changes in pvp focused games? well... the casual pvpers I guess.

so, whine about casuals all you want, but your casuals ruin as many things for you as mine do.

[Artemiz]

Big news everyone, the original post now has 9 likes, in only 27 pages!

Surely the developers must respond to this massive swell of public opinion and pull another 2.0 so we can all gank sprouts in the Black Shroud.