Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[Caurcas]

The problem with these debates is they always get derailed by a small minority who insist on talking about savage content. A content which 5% of players have cleared. That's like filtering advice about football through the lens of "will it work against Manchester United in the champions league final in front of 90,000 at Wembley?" even though your team mates in Sunday league are overweight and hungover and play around all the dog poo on the local pitch.

We don't need to offer advice to savage players, they should already know by then what to do and it's very organized content where you are quite likely to play with people you already know very well in a static format. Talk to your healers if you're not sure.

Advice is very useful to newer players, playing older/easier content or to players trying out a new role or job. To these players I say if you feel the need to use it, use it. A clear which "wasted a GcD" is far better than a wipe that didn't. you have a tool kit, use it. If your healer has so little empathy in random groups doing random content that they want you to go down to 5% HP before they deal with your health then they can't moan when you take matters into your own hands. Don't spam it, you have healers for a reason but by all means pop it if you feel it's needed. Any healer who gets angry at a tank popping Clemency in Copied Factory really needs to work on their social skills and anger management, frankly.

Savage/Ultimate skill balance is the only balance that matters. Other content is irrelevant. Clemency is largely worthless here, ere go it either needs a rework or change. Also savage has way more than 5% participation.

[ZedxKayn]

And really, if DF tanks truly have so little faith in their healer, it's better to use an invuln before clemency. Most of the tanks I've seen popping clemency have never heard of hallowed ground.

[Artemiz]

Savage/Ultimate skill balance is the only balance that matters. Other content is irrelevant. Clemency is largely worthless here, ere go it either needs a rework or change. Also savage has way more than 5% participation.

Savage has a 5% CLEAR rate on NA servers. Balance matters in all content, right from Sastasha. Not sure why you're talking about balance though, it's not part of my post at all.

[Caurcas]

Savage has a 5% CLEAR rate on NA servers. Balance matters in all content, right from Sastasha. Not sure why you're talking about balance though, it's not part of my post at all.

Data please.

[Jeeqbit]

How so? How does the rate at which the HP falls matter when I'm specifically saving heals until their health is low enough to make the best use I can of my bene or ED?

In most cases, you can go by % because the rate of decline is slow, but they are right that rate matters.

If the rate of decline is sharp, like 33% per second, there is a high chance that some healers won't react that fast. If they have already exhausted their off-globals and you have exhausted a lot of mitigation, there could be a very tight window for the healer to save you.

It's rare, but a recent example is the final dungeon of 5.0, where you can pull everything before the last boss, exhaust your heaviest mitigation while the healer uses up their entire kit and you can still be quite low and declining fast. And if your party doesn't know what AoE is, it really doesn't help. The first dungeon of shadowbringers can be rough as well because healers don't have their post-70 kit like Seraph on scholar.

The way I would help a healer out in these situations is to take a few steps back from the enemies. They will take about 3 seconds to move to me and resume their auto-attacks, but that pauses the incoming damage from non-casters for 3 seconds, which helps the healer a lot and prevents the need for clemency.

Not everyone is quite so adept, so clemency does make sense in those situations.

And really, if DF tanks truly have so little faith in their healer, it's better to use an invuln before clemency. Most of the tanks I've seen popping clemency have never heard of hallowed ground.

Hallowed Ground is best used as a regular cooldown, because you can get 3-4 uses out of it per dungeon run that way. Hallowed Ground isn't what makes a paladin overpowered, Clemency is.

[Syln]

"You know you dont need to heal me, i got it"
"Why are you healing him just do your own stuff"

For the first statement i would reply "ok !" for the second i would politely ask him/her to keep his/her opinion to him/herself and to be more reactive next time.

[Commander_Justitia]

Data please.

This was by February, it will be higher now

[Artemiz]

Data please.

I got that figure from a thread a few weeks ago which showed the official clear numbers. I think the thread might have been nuked as I can't find it now. The best I can find with a quick google search is thel Alexander savage clear rates. 5% was generous.

[ZedxKayn]

In most cases, you can go by % because the rate of decline is slow, but they are right that rate matters.

If the rate of decline is sharp, like 33% per second, there is a high chance that some healers won't react that fast. If they have already exhausted their off-globals and you have exhausted a lot of mitigation, there could be a very tight window for the healer to save you.

It's rare, but a recent example is the final dungeon of 5.0, where you can pull everything before the last boss, exhaust your heaviest mitigation while the healer uses up their entire kit and you can still be quite low and declining fast. And if your party doesn't know what AoE is, it really doesn't help. The first dungeon of shadowbringers can be rough as well because healers don't have their post-70 kit like Seraph on scholar.

The way I would help a healer out in these situations is to take a few steps back from the enemies. They will take about 3 seconds to move to me and resume their auto-attacks, but that pauses the incoming damage from non-casters for 3 seconds, which helps the healer a lot and prevents the need for clemency.

Not everyone is quite so adept, so clemency does make sense in those situations.

Hallowed Ground is best used as a regular cooldown, because you can get 3-4 uses out of it per dungeon run that way. Hallowed Ground isn't what makes a paladin overpowered, Clemency is.

While I agree with everything, somehow I doubt a PLD who clemencies at 40% would think about using HG as a regular CD.

Clemency's uses are very niche, that's just how it is, so I don't really understand the jabs the person I was replying to was making towards healers rather than clem uses.

[Jeeqbit]

Alexander rates from 2017 and current rates are not comparable. Cross-world party finder only came out during the final tier of Alexander, which made a massive difference to savage accessibility.

There are differences in the level of interest in savage even within regions and even between different worlds, so not all of NA is the same.